Main line train trouble apparently

[Deleted User X18H]

And 12 yes TWELVE hours later Southern are still churning out excuses that this poor sod is the cause of their late trains.

 

[HawkTheSeagull]

Railway folk.....answer me this.....how can someone get hit by a train at 5am, be cleaned up by 8:30am yet still at 5pm the trains are still in a mess?

Is it any wonder people get fed up with the service and have a dig at people on the front line?

Scene was a mess and took ages to clear up, without going into detail - there was issues in the "recovery". When you only have 10 minutes to turn a train round at each end of the line, and then each train is 60 minutes late, so it will start the next journey late, and the one after that, and after that etc - that why they terminate short or just get cancelled. Thats the benefit of our lovely congested railway network which badly needs an upgrade, shame the government would rather spend billions on HS2. Croydon is already at near 100% capacity at 6 lines, when you reduce it to only 2 lines open, its going to be screwed for hours.

And I see I caught myself a fair few with my comment It is wrong, can only assume they fine when there is people who have (and are stupid enough) to pay for 1st class already in the section as otherwise its unfair on them, only logic I can think of for doing it, still unfair.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Scene was a mess and took ages to clear up, without going into detail - there was issues in the "recovery".

Were they using those cheapo black bin bags from Aldi which split open when your fingernail makes contact with the plastic

 

[Ernest]

Railway folk.....answer me this.....how can someone get hit by a train at 5am, be cleaned up by 8:30am yet still at 5pm the trains are still in a mess?

Is it any wonder people get fed up with the service and have a dig at people on the front line?

Frontline staff (train crew , platform staff and ticket office staff) have been cut to the bare bone so when an incident happens it makes it that much harder to get things back to normal. In the past there were plenty of spare traincrew and stock so if a service was running late into Brighton it wasn't hard to sort out a new train with crew to make sure the next working is on time. Now that is virtually impossible to do as there are not the resources so if a train runs late into Brighton then the next working will leave Brighton late so the next arrival into Victoria will depart late and unless a train is cancelled or stops short that can carry on for hours.

 

[HawkTheSeagull]

Were they using those cheapo black bin bags from Aldi which split open when your fingernail makes contact with the plastic

Nope, it was more "things" were under the involved train, which was also disabled in the incident. Will leave it as that as the details arent nice.

 

[User removed 4]

And I see I caught myself a fair few with my comment It is wrong, can only assume they fine when there is people who have (and are stupid enough) to pay for 1st class already in the section as otherwise its unfair on them, only logic I can think of for doing it, still unfair.

You werent fishing with that comment youve made similarly smug statements about the trains before , you're just backtracking because you realise youve made yourself look a bit of a bellend.

 

[ROSM]

Can't disagree with anything Arthur, simster and tmls have said. I've commuted from brighton for nearly 20 years and in that time the price has gone from 1780 to 4800. Now I appreciate there are more trains, and some of them are longer, and the southern ones have aircon (which makes up for no windows) But I have to stand more now than ever before and cancellations are greater.

The major issue of privatising train operators away from those that run the infratructure is that the operators can make profits without making any discernible improvement to the ability to run the service.

 

[Beach Hut]

The major issue of privatising train operators away from those that run the infratructure is that the operators can make profits without making any discernible improvement to the ability to run the service.

I personally think a far more major concern is all tax payers contribute to their profits as the majority of TOCs are in revenue support.

 

[Frutos]

You werent fishing with that comment youve made similarly smug statements about the trains before , you're just backtracking because you realise youve made yourself look a bit of a bellend.

That, with bells on.

 

[ROSM]

I personally think a far more major concern is all tax payers contribute to their profits as the majority of TOCs are in revenue support.

Good point. Its one thing subsidising something if at least its in public ownership. But when it goes straight into the pockets of institutions then its challenge to see anything positive in it

 

[Beach Hut]

Good point. Its one thing subsidising something if at least its in public ownership. But when it goes straight into the pockets of institutions then its challenge to see anything positive in it

Which in turn greatly subsidises the SNP due to one major TOC owner

 

[Dick Head]

On east coast, when a train is particularly full, an announcement goes out saying that standard tickets will be valid in the first class carriage. But then again, east coast provide by far and away the best service in the country (in my opinion) .

Can first class passengers get a refund for the difference in price of their ticket in this situation?

 

[Beach Hut]

Can first class passengers get a refund for the difference in price of their ticket in this situation?

Yes, providing the Train Manager de-classifies the train which is normally on permission from the control

 

[HawkTheSeagull]

You werent fishing with that comment youve made similarly smug statements about the trains before , you're just backtracking because you realise youve made yourself look a bit of a bellend.

Nope, I knew I would get certain posters to bite. I quite like this fishing lark, might keep it up. If I ever make a serious comment I stick to my guns. Basically, dont kid yourself just because you bit

Just because I've made past comments, doesnt make me think this aspect is fair....or right for that matter, not when it gets me abuse from people who have had it done to.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Is it still the case that it's ultimately Network Rail that has the responsibility for suicides (for failing to prevent intrusion on to their tracks) - and therefore Network Rail have to compensate the train operating companies (for failing to make the track available to them), leaving the train operator free to compensate passengers, at no cost to themselves?

That's how the accountancy arrangements were explained to me by a senior Connex manager, shortly after privatisation opened the gates to thousands of accountants flooding into the railway industry.

 

[HawkTheSeagull]

Is it still the case that it's ultimately Network Rail that has the responsibility for suicides (for failing to prevent intrusion on to their tracks) - and therefore Network Rail have to compensate the train operating companies (for failing to make the track available to them), leaving the train operator free to compensate passengers, at no cost to themselves?

That's how the accountancy arrangements were explained to me by a senior Connex manager, shortly after privatisation opened the gates to thousands of accountants flooding into the railway industry.

Yep, Network Rail take responsibility when delays are directly due to the fatality. The TOCs wont cover costs and compensation will be divided between the companies. Could be talking over £1 Million in total for today, everything considered that is. Southern wont actually lose any money, except from lost ticket sales today.

 

[British Bulldog]

Yep, Network Rail take responsibility when delays are directly due to the fatality.

With all due respect your talking a load of bollox, I've been directly involved in fatalities where the TOC has had to take responsibility and cover the cost of delay's.

 

[British Bulldog]

Is it still the case that it's ultimately Network Rail that has the responsibility for suicides (for failing to prevent intrusion on to their tracks) - and therefore Network Rail have to compensate the train operating companies (for failing to make the track available to them), leaving the train operator free to compensate passengers, at no cost to themselves?

That's how the accountancy arrangements were explained to me by a senior Connex manager, shortly after privatisation opened the gates to thousands of accountants flooding into the railway industry.

The whole situation of fatalities has got a lot more complex these days rather than just Network Rail ( or Railtrack as it was when the old system was agreed ) having to take responsibility. Everything gets taken into account now before responsibility is attributed, For example if the person jumped from the platform then you factor in whether it's a Network Rail or Southern leased station the platform was part of, Plus you add in who's train hit the person, Did the person jump or lean over, If they jumped did they land on the track before being hit etc etc etc. Like I said it's a lot more complex these days and in a lot of cases the costs just end up getting shared around these days. In my mind when it comes to a fatality there should be no costs to any company other than passenger compensation which should be shared amongst all the companies involved as on the whole it's an unavoidable situation.

 

[Simster]

Nope, I knew I would get certain posters to bite. I quite like this fishing lark, might keep it up. If I ever make a serious comment I stick to my guns. Basically, dont kid yourself just because you bit

Just because I've made past comments, doesnt make me think this aspect is fair....or right for that matter, not when it gets me abuse from people who have had it done to.

People will make their own minds up, but I'm with bushy.

A fishing trip would suggest you did something out of character in an effort to get a reponse, but as bushy said, you've posted this smug train related bollocks many a time before now. It's just that on this occasion, you looked like a total bellend for doing so, and you don't like it.

 

[Arthur]

Can't disagree with anything Arthur, simster and tmls have said. I've commuted from brighton for nearly 20 years and in that time the price has gone from 1780 to 4800. Now I appreciate there are more trains, and some of them are longer, and the southern ones have aircon (which makes up for no windows) But I have to stand more now than ever before and cancellations are greater.

The major issue of privatising train operators away from those that run the infratructure is that the operators can make profits without making any discernible improvement to the ability to run the service.

Delays, cancellations, short formations are all part and parcel of commuting. Whilst they are frustrating as long as they are the exception and not the rule then I personally can deal with them. As you say they are becoming more and more frequent these days. My first tasks after switching my alarm off in the morning is to check the national rail app and twitter to see what delights await me. Should I really have to do this every morning? Even then there is a good chance there will be disruption of short formation which southern don't seem to see as a disruption so don't announce it anywhere. I'm fortunate that I'm flexible with work and if it is a case of standing up all the way into London or getting a later train I will always chose the latter.

My line (Uckfield line) still has diesel trains so they are very limited as to what rolling stock they can use. Any problems with it they take a coach (which is really 2 coaches) off the tracks and we have to suffer because the line is massively over crowded. When I first started commuting it was the done thing for people of Crowborough to drive over to Tunbridge Wells as there wasn't a direct service from Crowborough. Since that has been introduced the service has gone full circle and now people from Tunbridge Wells are getting on the service at Eridge (and I'm sure a few people from HH are getting on at Uckfield) because comparatively the price is allot cheaper and the trains are allot nicer (air con!!). My annual ticket is about £2700 compared with £3500 up the road in TW. For that you give up the frequency of trains there is on the Hastings line but for a £800 saving obviously allot of people think that it is worth it.

Every time there is a problem these days its always someone else's fault. Ernest's post is a prime example. The train companies will blame national rail, national rail will blame the train companies. When the train companies can't blame national rail they'll blame lack of resource, when national rail can't blame the trains companies they'll blame a 3rd party contractor or some other factor like the weather (something we only appear to have in this country).

How is any of this the commuters fault? You can't really blame anyone for what happened yesterday as no one can make provisions for someone throwing themselves in front of a train. BUT as I stated yesterday it happened at 5am and was cleared by 8:30. Why then were there still problems at 21:30?!? I can only put it down to shit planning or some other daft reason that companies get fined for late/non running services.

As I said I'm fortunate with work so yesterday I worked from home first thing and if it hadn't have been for a lunch time meeting I probably would have stayed at home all day. I got the 10:45 which wasn't listed on any of the dot matrix displays at the station, it was only the fact I was following the progress of the down train on the app on my phone that I knew it existed. Everyone else at the station at that time weren't commuters and were horrified that according to the board the next train was an hour wait. Then on said train we made it as far as Oxted where we sat and sat and sat. I assumed this was due to congestion further down the line. No! The very honest driver said because we were waiting for a change of train crew!! Eventually we got to East Croydon where the service was terminated.

To add insult to injury my train back last night was half an hour late back. As it was late leaving LB all the folk for Croydon and Oxted got other services so it was actually quite pleasant capacity wise. The reason it ended up being half hour late was because we, the fast train, were put behind a stopping train so we crawled down the track. That to me sounds like bad planning and/or incompetence rather than lack of resource. We ended up getting back to Crowborough just over half an hour late so people, myself included would be able to claim a part of their ticket price back. In my case it works out at about £2.80. However National Rail obviously had other ideas and decided they didn't want to pay out and blatantly lied!

Have a look at the time of departure at Eridge and the arrival time at Crowborough!!

For those of you that don't know Eridge to Crowborough is about a 5 minute journey. It's got nothing to do with the fact I won't be able to claim a couple of quid back it's the principle of the matter. They've lied to try and save themselves a few quid. I pointed this out to them on twitter a got some bullshit excuse that the Eridge time was manually entered by Southern (see what I mean about one blaming the other!!) and their timings were correct. They weren't! I was on the train. Look at the time on my phone, we still hadn't arrived at Crowborough station when I took that screengrab!

I don't know any other organisation can treat their customers as badly as they do and get away with it (with the possible exception of the FA or the football club at times). Sadly they know they can get away with it as there isn't any other alternative!

Dunno why I've typed all that as nothing is going to change. The service will get shitter but I'll still keep using it.