Main Coronavirus / Covid-19 Discussion Thread

[Machiavelli]

A number of contributory reasons. Off the top of my head;

1a) They have been shut to tourism since end of March, even residents (non Chinese citizens) who fled at the beginning of the outbreak have only started to come back recently.

1b) Even if you do qualify for a visa exemption, there are a lot of hurdles you need to jump through, like PCR test, mandatory 14 day quarantine in government hotel, authorisation from the provincial government etc etc.

2) They have efficient Blockchain track and trace apps that work.

3) Mass targeted testing capabilities when outbreaks occur within cities. We're talking about the ability to test over 10m people in less than two weeks, and this is mandatory.

4) They have the most vaccine candidates in later stage trials and these have already been administered to people in health sector and industries that are most at risk.

5) And probably the most important difference to the West, a completely different societal model. No democracy and a by product of this is that everyone is working towards a common goal.

Basically, most of these things would be unacceptable for most Western countries. We know that from this forum, but that's why countries like China and Vietnam are doing pretty well.

Thank you too for that response, but I'm wondering why you didn't include South Korea in there, which warrants a slightly different response to 5) above. But, to summarise a lot of those points, China, Vietnam, South Korea, etc have most closely followed WHO guidance, whereas our lot think the answer is Dido Harding.

 

[darkwolf666]

A number of contributory reasons. Off the top of my head;

1a) They have been shut to tourism since end of March, even residents (non Chinese citizens) who fled at the beginning of the outbreak have only started to come back recently.

1b) Even if you do qualify for a visa exemption, there are a lot of hurdles you need to jump through, like PCR test, mandatory 14 day quarantine in government hotel, authorisation from the provincial government etc etc.

2) They have efficient Blockchain track and trace apps that work.

3) Mass targeted testing capabilities when outbreaks occur within cities. We're talking about the ability to test over 10m people in less than two weeks, and this is mandatory.

4) They have the most vaccine candidates in later stage trials and these have already been administered to people in health sector and industries that are most at risk.

5) And probably the most important difference to the West, a completely different societal model. No democracy and a by product of this is that everyone is working towards a common goal.

Basically, most of these things would be unacceptable for most Western countries. We know that from this forum, but that's why countries like China and Vietnam are doing pretty well.

6) no Facebook
7) no Twitter

 

[middletoenail]

Thank you too for that response, but I'm wondering why you didn't include South Korea in there, which warrants a slightly different response to 5) above. But, to summarise a lot of those points, China, Vietnam, South Korea, etc have most closely followed WHO guidance, whereas our lot think the answer is Dido Harding.

You're correct, South Korea have done very well too and it was my mistake to omiss them. Should also add Thailand!

 

[Motogull]

FFS

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...tibodies-fall-rapidly-after-recovery-12115510

What I noted:

1. Herd immunity - forget it.
2. Keep everything crossed for immunisations.

Depressing doesn't cover it.

 

[Yoda]

FFS

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...tibodies-fall-rapidly-after-recovery-12115510

What I noted:

1. Herd immunity - forget it.
2. Keep everything crossed for immunisations.

Depressing doesn't cover it.

This was covered back in the summer by many other experts and this is what I took from it.

The two types of anti-bodies they test on are only in your plasma for up to about 24 and 50 days anyway. After that your Memory Lymphocytes (T-Cells) remember the virus and and reproduce the anti bodies if you happen to contract the viral again.

Anyone with any bit of background knowledge in virology or bio-chemistry should know this so for these so called experts to come out and say this is down right wrong and misleading. I very much doubt it will be pass peer review and if it does then goes on to prove there is another agender going on alongside Covid-19.

 

[Seagull27]

Thanks, great answer, not one that I was expecting.

Essentially China is doing a great job at controlling the virus with life more or less normal for most.

Very impressive. Shame we're still stuck in this perpetual hell.

Blimey, you've previously criticised the UK for being too heavy handed with lockdown, and now you're praising China?

You realise their version of lockdown involved physically locking people into their homes?

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[middletoenail]

Blimey, you've previously criticised the UK for being too heavy handed with lockdown, and now you're praising China?

You realise their version of lockdown involved physically locking people into their homes?

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Where did China lock up citizens to control Covid? They didn't even do that in Wuhan.

 

[Bozza]

Where did China lock up citizens to control Covid? They didn't even do that in Wuhan.

Eh?

That's exactly what they did in Wuhan and much of Hubei province.

People were confined to their homes from 23rd January to 8th April in the most draconian of lockdowns one could imagine. All public transport was cancelled and no one could leave their home without explicit permission from authorities. Any approved movements outside the home were highly monitored.

 

[Bozza]

Where did China lock up citizens to control Covid? They didn't even do that in Wuhan.

Use your favourite search engine for either "wuhan lockdown" or "Hubei lockdown" and choose a news source that you trust. There is no shortage.

 

[Seagull27]

Where did China lock up citizens to control Covid? They didn't even do that in Wuhan.

It was fairly well covered at the time.

https://in.mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idINKCN20G0AY

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10925668/coronavirus-patients-welded-homes-china/

https://time.com/5796425/china-coronavirus-lockdown/

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[Seagull27]

I'm not aware of that, if true, no.

I don't believe the UK has been too heavy handed with lock down. In fact, I think the first lock down should have come sooner and harder.

What I've got a problem with is the length of time we have had to endure the restrictions of our freedoms, and to what end. A friend of mine told me yesterday that her elderly mother's mental health has badly deteriorated over the last year, and she puts it mainly down to self isolating when she was previously very sociable.

China has been back to normal since summer. This is like a dream, compared to what we have been enduring and continue to endure. Whatever they're doing, they're doing right. Would love to be living a normal life again... but for us, we'll be lucky to be doing so in 2022, if our goal is to eliminate the virus.

Fair enough. I agree we should have acted sooner, the countries that took the most extreme measures early on have been able to recover quicker - see NZ.

But we didn't, so we're faced with two choices really - put those Draconian restrictions in place for a few weeks and hope the UK public stick to them without revolt (they won't), or try our hardest to keep the numbers low whole opening things up where we can, until we get a vaccine. I suppose there is a third choice - open up back to normal, and let the virus spread. Don't think many people would find that palatable once the reality hits though.

Edit - as mentioned above as well, China are in a relatively unique position that their government can tell their public what to do without fear of revolt or disobedience. They can enforce it as heavy-handed as they like without worrying about being voted out of power, and they can shut down dissenting voices without repercussion. That makes things like this much easier to handle.

 

[middletoenail]

Eh?

That's exactly what they did in Wuhan and much of Hubei province.

People were confined to their homes from 23rd January to 8th April in the most draconian of lockdowns one could imagine. All public transport was cancelled and no one could leave their home without explicit permission from authorities. Any approved movements outside the home were highly monitored.

Use your favourite search engine for either "wuhan lockdown" or "Hubei lockdown" and choose a news source that you trust. There is no shortage.

It was fairly well covered at the time.

https://in.mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idINKCN20G0AY

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10925668/coronavirus-patients-welded-homes-china/

https://time.com/5796425/china-coronavirus-lockdown/

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I think what you guys mean is they had a lockdown, a proper one by dictionary definition. They shut down public transport, schools, restricted movement etc. Then even in the worst of places these restrictions were lifted/reduced after a couple of months.

Draconian, yes. Tough, of course. It just depends on how serious you are about saving lives and jobs. Unfortunately the UK (and much of the West) don't have the appetite to want things to go back to how they were, in exchange for a bit of hardship.

 

[Seagull27]

I think what you guys mean is they had a lockdown, a proper one by dictionary definition. They shut down public transport, schools, restricted movement etc. Then even in the worst of places these restrictions were lifted after a couple of months.

Draconian, yes. Tough, of course. It just depends on how serious you are about saving lives and jobs. Unfortunately the UK (and much of the West) don't have the appetite to want things to go back to how they were, in exchange for a bit of hardship.

Well, yes - including physically locking people up in their homes, which was the point I was making.

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[middletoenail]

Well, yes - including physically locking people up in their homes, which was the point I was making.

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I'll meet you in the middle. In some cases people were prevented from leaving their compounds/estates for unnecessary trips ;-)

 

[Bozza]

I think what you guys mean is they had a lockdown, a proper one by dictionary definition. They shut down public transport, schools, restricted movement etc. Then even in the worst of places these restrictions were lifted/reduced after a couple of months.

Draconian, yes. Tough, of course. It just depends on how serious you are about saving lives and jobs. Unfortunately the UK (and much of the West) don't have the appetite to want things to go back to how they were, in exchange for a bit of hardship.

People were restricted to their homes.

Starting within hours of the announcement, transport into and out of the city was closed, with no exceptions even for personal and medical emergencies. Schools and universities were already on holiday, but that was extended indefinitely.

All shops shut except those selling food or medicine. Private vehicles were barred from the roads without special permission, and most public transport stopped, leaving the streets empty and silent.

Initially people were allowed out of their homes, but restrictions soon tightened. Some areas limited outings to one family member every two days to buy necessities. Others barred residents from leaving, requiring them to order in food and other supplies from couriers.

Later the policy became even more aggressive, with officials going door to door for health checks, and forcing anyone ill into isolation. A disabled boy reportedly died after he was left without food, water or help when his his father and brother were quarantined.​

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...avirus-lockdown-strategy-brutal-but-effective

 

[Seagull27]

I'll meet you in the middle. In some cases people were prevented from leaving their compounds/estates for unnecessary trips ;-)

I don't mean to be pedantic, but it was a bit more extreme than that in some cases - in the links I posted there were reports of Covid positive people having their front doors barred/boarded up to prevent them from leaving.

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[middletoenail]

I don't mean to be pedantic, but it was a bit more extreme than that in some cases - in the links I posted there were reports of Covid positive people having their front doors barred/boarded up to prevent them from leaving.

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I'd suggest to not believe everything you read about China in Western media. I lost faith when I saw some of the BBC reporting in recent years, who should be the bastions for impartiality!

 

[A1X]

[TWEET]1321388404723122176[/TWEET]

 

[Albion Dan]

Fishy fishy

https://youtu.be/MOFyoX3cTMo

 

[nicko31]

21st Sept, Chris Whitty - 200 deaths a day by mid Nov

Yesterday 357

https://www.itv.com/goodmorningbrit...itty-new-daily-deaths-covid-november-lockdown

What did he say about a Circuit Break?