Lord of the Rings

[Papa Lazarou]

Originally posted by dave the gaffer
Why didn't the Eagle creatures things just drop Mr Frodo "sniff" off at the mountain of Salamander or whatever his name was in the first episode, then we would not have had all the other two films?

The actual reason who the Eagles don't directly assist in the destruction of the ring is:

1. the Eagles obey nobody by Illuvatar - the God of middle earth, and as such cannot intervene 'willy nilly' in the passage of events.
2. Sauron is on the lookout for the ring, and as such the borders of Mordor are under surveillance. Bloody great eagles would be easily spotted and the Nazgul, riding their dragons would make easy work of taking them down. However, Hobbits are small and very unlikely ring bearers.

Originally posted by CrabTreeBHA
what exactly "is" over the ocean? I see the Elves and Frodo at the end buggering off on the boat to "somewhere" but dont know exactly what "there" is or what "it" does

The place that Gandalf, Bilbo, Frodo et al (I think Gadrael might have gone as well) is Valinor, which is close to being the Heaven in Middle Earth. Valinor is where the Elves and Maia (Gandalf is a Maia) originally came from, and where the Elves go when they die. Other races - Man, Hobbits and Orcs are excluded from Valinor (both in life and death). However, as both Bilbo & Frodo have been ring bearers they are permitted to sail 'into the west' where Valinor is located (it is normally hidden to all travellers). Frodo must go to Valinor becuase the wounds he has from the Nazgul sword and the sting of Shelob won't heal in middle earth, but in Valinor he will be healed.

The whole Elves etc leaving middle earth is meant to show the passage of the world from the time of the Elves (the original imhabitants of ME) to the time of men, and the start of our own pre-history, a time when Magic was no longer needed, and other creatures became a thing of myth.

P.S. I think LOTR deserves every oscar it got - and that's coming from a huge Star Wars fan.

Papa

 

[Easy 10]

Well. There ya go then.

Just one question though, as Papa L is clearly the one to ask on this stuff. Why is it, whenever Frodo slips his finger into Saurons ring (fnarr), that Sauron doesn't realise exactly who the ring bearer is ? He seems to "see" (sorry Crabbers) Frodo every time Frodo has the ring on, and yet still seems ignorant of the fact that a Hobbit is on his way to Mount Doom to destroy it...

I'd have posted a 24 hour guard of orcs and uruk-hai around Mount Doom, to make absolutely sure nobody could get anywhere near to casting the ring into its fiery depths.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

Well. There ya go then.

Just one question though, as Papa L is clearly the one to ask on this stuff. Why is it, whenever Frodo slips his finger into Saurons ring (fnarr), that Sauron doesn't realise exactly who the ring bearer is ? He seems to "see" (sorry Crabbers) Frodo every time Frodo has the ring on, and yet still seems ignorant of the fact that a Hobbit is on his way to Mount Doom to destroy it...

I'd have posted a 24 hour guard of orcs and uruk-hai around Mount Doom, to make absolutely sure nobody could get anywhere near to casting the ring into its fiery depths.

The explanation that I have heard for this is that (a little lamely) it never ever crosses Sauron's mind that there is a being out there that could carry the ring and not want to use it's power. He never thinks that anyone would try to destroy it. True he sees Frodo whenever he wears it, but in the ROTK Sauron beleives that Pippin has the ring after he looks into the Palentir (crystal ball type thing).

I suppose Sauron beleives his own hype, and expects the ring to overpower whoever possesses it.

The thing that I find a little hard to 'beleive' (I know it's not true, by the way), is that when Sam & Frodo are wandering across the wastelands of Mordor, and the eye of Sauron looks at them it fails to recognise the ring bearer or the rings, despite the fact that the eye is supposedly able to see through rock and flesh etc (after all, Frodo has simply rolled onto his side!!).

also, he was rather easily distracted by the fight outside the black gates .. what a fool.

Papa

 

[Easy 10]

Sauron was a bit of a twat all-round then really. He made some schoolboy errors, and so only has himself to blame for his own eventual downfall. One other thing I didn't understand. I think it was in the first one, when Gadrael says of Frodo: "The quest will claim his life. You know this to be true." Errrr, its not. Right up to the end, I thought Frodo was going to endure a grisly but heroic death (perhaps with Gollum), but blow me down if he didn't get away with it. It turns out, Gadrael was talking out of her arse. The quest was completed, and Frodo survived, so what was that all about ?

Wise Lady of the Wood indeed. I wouldn't trust her to tell me what time the next bus was due, let alone believe in her wildly inaccurate predictions of death and desruction. I've seen more accurate forcasts from Michael Fish.

Tch.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

Sauron was a bit of a twat all-round then really. He made some schoolboy errors, and so only has himself to blame for his own eventual downfall. One other thing I didn't understand. I think it was in the first one, when Gadrael says of Frodo: "The quest will claim his life. You know this to be true." Errrr, its not. Right up to the end, I thought Frodo was going to endure a grisly but heroic death (perhaps with Gollum), but blow me down if he didn't get away with it. It turns out, Gadrael was talking out of her arse. The quest was completed, and Frodo survived, so what was that all about ?

Wise Lady of the Wood indeed. I wouldn't trust her to tell me what time the next bus was due, let alone believe in her wildly inaccurate predictions of death and desruction. I've seen more accurate forcasts from Michael Fish.

Tch.

I think Gadrael's reference to it 'claiming his life' could have referred to the fact that when he returned from his quest he was no longer able to fit back into the 'life' in the shire he had before. It's like the quest had left a shadow over his heart that he could never shake off.

He had no life in the shire when he returned, so to paraphrase Obi Wan Kenobi "It was true; from a particular point of view".

As far as Sauron is concerned, I'm just reading the Silmarillion at the moment, and it's quite clear that Sauron is not the finished article at all when it comes to evil rulers of Middle Earth.. Sauron was originally just a general (and a nasty one at that) or Morgoth, who was a REALLY nasty piece of work (Morgorth was originally one of the Valar, created by Illuvatar to act as Demi-gods for middle earth.

In fact the Valar are complete fools in this respect, as Morgoth took over middle earth long ago, and was captured and imprisoned, only to be set free by the Valar, becuase that though he had repented... and guess what, he went back to ME and took up where he left off, making Orc armies and taking over Middle Earth.. it was then that Sauron appeared...

 

[Marc]

what I dont get is this Sauron presence thing, he cant come back to live in a human being or whatever but he can come partially back as a huge f***ing tower with a massive piss-off eye on the top that can see through pretty much everything....whats the deal with that!?!

 

[Papa Lazarou]

what I dont get is this Sauron presence thing, he cant come back to live in a human being or whatever but he can come partially back as a huge f***ing tower with a massive piss-off eye on the top that can see through pretty much everything....whats the deal with that!?!

got me mate - there's also something called the mouth of sauron, but 'it' doesn't get shown in the films.

the whole Sauron as a spirit thing is kinda reminiscent of Volermort from Harry Potter - it's interesting where JK Rowling got here ideas from

 

[Turkey]

Well. There ya go then.

Just one question though, as Papa L is clearly the one to ask on this stuff. Why is it, whenever Frodo slips his finger into Saurons ring (fnarr), that Sauron doesn't realise exactly who the ring bearer is ? He seems to "see" (sorry Crabbers) Frodo every time Frodo has the ring on, and yet still seems ignorant of the fact that a Hobbit is on his way to Mount Doom to destroy it...

I'd have posted a 24 hour guard of orcs and uruk-hai around Mount Doom, to make absolutely sure nobody could get anywhere near to casting the ring into its fiery depths.

I *think* thats artistic licence. Don't remember that bit happening in the book.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

I *think* thats artistic licence. Don't remember that bit happening in the book.

I think he's seen the porno version of Lord of the Rings...

 

[Marc]

ANOTHER thing, the Palentir (crystal ball thingy), how the f*** did that get from the centre of the tower and end up outside? Its pobably shown in the extended DVD but it made me immdeiatley think in the cinema "how the f*** did that get there!?!"

So answers PLEASE Papa L

 

[Ex Shelton Seagull]

Isn't the Captain of the Black Gate, the mouth of Sauron? He comes out acting the big man but he nearly shits himself when he thinks Aragorn's going to have a pop at him. Bunch of pussies those evil sorts.
The Witch King of Angmar wasn't much better. He's all-powerful and rides around on a huge dragon thing, the very sound of his approach causes men to flee in terror. Yet he had one fatal flaw.

"Don't you know I cannot be killed by any man?"
"I am no man, I am a woman!"
"Oh bollocks. Why didn't I say nobody? That would have covered all the bases. Hey-ho."

 

[Ex Shelton Seagull]

The palantir was lobbed out of the tower by Wormtounge. This was cut out of the film, maybe because it sets up the final scenes in the Shire and we see how much Sauraman hates Wormtounge which leads to the deaths of both characters.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

The palantir was lobbed out of the tower by Wormtounge. This was cut out of the film, maybe because it sets up the final scenes in the Shire and we see how much Sauraman hates Wormtounge which leads to the deaths of both characters.

and of course the 'scouring of the shire' which occurs in the books doesn't happen in the films at all...

 

[Titanic]

My 12 year old son thinks Lord of the Rings is really great !

I didn't realise it was for grownups too.



My 8 year old likes Digimon... any of you interested in that ?

I thought the movie was pants - a bit like LOTR.

 

[Ex Shelton Seagull]

and of course the 'scouring of the shire' which occurs in the books doesn't happen in the films at all...

And didn't that piss off Christopher Lee. Did they shoot those scenes at all? If they did then i'd expect to see them in the extended DVD.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

And didn't that piss off Christopher Lee. Did they shoot those scenes at all? If they did then i'd expect to see them in the extended DVD.

I don't think they can show them because didn't Jackson deviate from the book ending with the Hobbits returning to an unspoilt shire? I would guess that things wouldn't be that way if Saruman had been and scoured the place... I think all the stuff with Wormtongue will be on the extended DVD however.

 

[Easy 10]

Was there any truth in the rumour that Christopher Lee had the MAJOR arse-ache about not featuring at all in ROTK ? I notice he wasn't at the Oscars the other night. It seemed very odd, as after Isangaard was destroyed by the Ents, we see nothing of Sarumans fate, and he's barely mentioned in the 3rd instalment.

I suppose he'll feature in the extended version when its released on DVD, but it a bit of a shitter for him to be cut from the cinematic release completely. I'd have the right hump as well if I was him.

 

[Ex Shelton Seagull]

He was not amused. I don't think he turned up to the premiere either. I can accept cutting out the battle of the Shire because it's stuck onto the ending and it wouldn't take much away from a film version if you got rid of it, but getting rid of battle between the Orcs and the Ents was a disappointment, it has all the makings of a great battle scene. Maybe Jackson thought he had enough in the film already? I figure they must have shot some scenes with Christopher Lee otherwise he wouldn't have been so pissed off.

 

[Curious Orange]

Saruman's encounter with Gandalf at Orthanc, where Wormtongue lobs the Palantir out of the tower, was filmed and will be in the DVD. I'm suprised it was cut from the cinematic release as it is a fairly pivotal scene. The scouring of the Shire wasn't shot, although you did see evidence of it when Frodo was looking in Galadriel's mirror in Fellowship - the reason the Shire doesn't look like that at the end of ROTK is because the scenes where they are heading off to the Greyhavens are set four years after the Hobbits return from Gondor.

 

[Marc]

Gandalf and Tree beard mention he's locked himself in the tower and Gandalf leaves the Ents to guard him.