'Little romance in City's title win' - outstanding article!

[RexCathedra]

With the self perpetuating wealth of the top 6 or 8 English clubs, the best clubs like Brighton can ever dream of is Premier League survival.

Give them their damn SuperMegaEuroLeague. The only value the EPL has to them as it is is that it functions as the play-in process for Europe anyways.

 

[Hamilton]

Long dicussion on Five Live tonight about all the work/outreach the club is doing in the local community.

A long discussion? Ok, fair enough, but let me guess...

Mark (I couldn't ask an incisive question in a million years because I've got my tongue so far up every club's and manager's backside) Chapman: "But what do you put back in?"

MCFC ex player or some sort: "Well they do lots of good work with local schools."

Chapman: "You see that's brilliant. That's amazing. Not a lot of people know that."

(Behind the glass the producer wonders if Chapman will ever ask them whether the proportionality of their investment in local community initiatives matches the low benchmark set by the footballing community in general and surely MCFC can just see this is a negligible investment when set aside their wage bill. Were MCFC not doing community work before the present owners arrived and has the investment in outreach work increased in the same way as the wage structure? Then the producer remembers that the sycophantic journalists they have fronting sports programmes would never ask such questions. Leave that to a one off sensationalist panorama programme.)

 

[Hamilton]

Outstanding article and good debate on here. The rot really started with the formation of the Premier League and the breaking of the old way football finances were split among all 92 clubs. There was more care for the wider football community before then. The Premier League has become so predictable and dull at the top, not to mention devoid of English players. A corporate oligarchy that tries to persuade fans to care more about 4th place and Champions League cash than actually winning anything. The broadcasters join in with this lie, implying that football only started in the early 90s with every drooling sycophantic platitude they utter.

I love football but have lost interest in the PL and don't value these titles bought by the highest bidder. Who cares? So bored I would struggle to name the City team.

Agree with that.

I can't stand it when the BBC, Sky and all the papers play up to Stats as if they all began in 1992. It's the same with the European Cup.

You here about X player or Y team having the highest percentage in Champions League history and then you realise they are discounting all those European Cup years.

Or how Johnny Come Lately striker has scored more goals in a certain way than ever before in the Premier League because it's an embarrassment to admit that somebody might have achieved that for Coventry City in 1977 or something.

 

[Weststander]

Imagine if a team like Wigan won the FA cup. Yes those days have gone TLO.

Because over the last 15 years, the top PL clubs have shown far less interest in it, with a top 4 finish and the current year's CL campaign more important. Wenger for example has openly admitted as much ... until now, of course. During that period, poor Millwall, Cardiff and Southampton teams have even made the FAC final, reflecting its down-grading. But once a top 4 club makes it to the semis of final, it's taken more seriously as it can then be an easy piece of silverware to pick up without impinging on CL progress.

 

[RexCathedra]

... please remember that these problems aren't confined to football. There is growing inequality in this world that is affecting all of us

From 1995, Robert Frank's The Winner-Take-All Society.

 

[Weststander]

Long dicussion on Five Live tonight about all the work/outreach the club is doing in the local community.

5live had to do that documentary to appear even handed. They, and Sky, have always relentlessly talked over and over again and still do about ManU's £ success in the PL era, about Fergie or Giggs or so and so, reaching 750 games, age 70, 800 games .... all arbitrary 'milestones' to hype up, with the usual characters being interviewed in boot licking interviews - Bruce, Crerand, Macari.

All part of the hype. I think of lot of 5live listeners would have turned over tonight with little interest in ManC's bought success.

 

[Mr Blobby]

But some smaller clubs would say the same about us with Blooms millions. Before Bloom we could not compete in the Championship, now we are a miserable bunch when we only make the play offs. We are a club full of modern fans, we have a large corporate offering at the amex and now its all about generating income. We are just lucky we have Bloom a real supporter as our investor, but are we really any different? We think we are, but many non Albion fans would say we are now just another club posting financial results showing us paying out way more than the club generates to get the club into the premiership! Who a few years ago would believe that in one year we would lose £15m?? Modern football sadly!

 

[Questions]

Because over the last 15 years, the top PL clubs have shown far less interest in it, with a top 4 finish and the current year's CL campaign more important. Wenger for example has openly admitted as much ... until now, of course. During that period, poor Millwall, Cardiff and Southampton teams have even made the FAC final, reflecting its down-grading. But once a top 4 club makes it to the semis of final, it's taken more seriously as it can then be an easy piece of silverware to pick up without impinging on CL progress.

This argument is fine if about the premier league but only 3 sides outside the top flight have made the FA cup final in , what 15 years..... Millwall, Cardiff and Saints ? And that's with the big boys taking it easy. Yet when they took it seriously from 72 to 82, 4 2nd flight teams made the final with 3 of the 4 outsiders winning it.
Statistics hey.

 

[GT49er]

This is a very good article indeed, thanks for that.

Those of you who agree with the points made, particularly in the first half of the article, please remember that these problems aren't confined to football. There is growing inequality in this world that is affecting all of us, there is a rich elite ruling class that is increasingly dictating our politics, our freedoms and our lives. Football in a strange way epitomises this, but as well as venting your frustrations with football, do more to speak up against this 21st century oligarchy that we live in - it's a lot more important.

Agree with all of that. The world's gone mad, and so has football. Imagine a situation where the team with the biggest (or nearly the biggest) attendances in the division, charging the highest seat prices, and implementing a wages structure which prevents the players from being the top earners in the division.......loses £8M a year and is struggling to meet FFP requirements. Couldn't happen, could it..................

 

[Napper]

Agree with that.

I can't stand it when the BBC, Sky and all the papers play up to Stats as if they all began in 1992. It's the same with the European Cup.

You here about X player or Y team having the highest percentage in Champions League history and then you realise they are discounting all those European Cup years.

Or how Johnny Come Lately striker has scored more goals in a certain way than ever before in the Premier League because it's an embarrassment to admit that somebody might have achieved that for Coventry City in 1977 or something.

Agree with you but in their defence you have to break it down a bit somewhen otherwise you have stats on stats that are not relative .

Before the prem and chumps league a lot of stats were pre and post war .

Like I say , agree with you but this could be the reason

 

[Hamilton]

Agree with you but in their defence you have to break it down a bit somewhen otherwise you have stats on stats that are not relative .

Before the prem and chumps league a lot of stats were pre and post war .

Like I say , agree with you but this could be the reason

I understand where you are coming from, but I actually think many all time football stats are as relevant as stats since the premier league began.

Perhaps if stats were listed as 'all time' and 'in the last decade' it would make more sense. However, my sense is the PL brand is forcing these stats.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

But some smaller clubs would say the same about us with Blooms millions. Before Bloom we could not compete in the Championship, now we are a miserable bunch when we only make the play offs. We are a club full of modern fans, we have a large corporate offering at the amex and now its all about generating income. We are just lucky we have Bloom a real supporter as our investor, but are we really any different? We think we are, but many non Albion fans would say we are now just another club posting financial results showing us paying out way more than the club generates to get the club into the premiership! Who a few years ago would believe that in one year we would lose £15m?? Modern football sadly!

Those smaller clubs that say that have a very good point.

 

[ROKERITE]

I remember how unpopular it was when Jack Walker's millions 'bought' Blackburn Rovers the Premier League title. Nowadays, it seems like a romantic fairy tale compared to the operations at Chelsea and Manchester City.

Really? I remember no such thing. I remember general delight that Blackburn had denied manu the title. I'm pleased Manchester City have just won The Premier League as well. For so long the glory-hunting creeps club manu have been ruling the roost and I think it's refreshing that City have bucked that trend, Arab money or no Arab money.
FFP is a dreadful idea which would guarantee manu and a handful of other clubs could never be challenged. I wish City's lawyers well in their legal fight against Platini and co..

 

[goldstone]

I agree.

I'm surprised there hasn't been more made of the death of Manchester City FC. For many of their die hard supporters this latest trophy must have a real hollow ring about it. For decades they have dreamt of lording it over their more successful neighbours and now that time has come, but at what price? They have sold their soul for the ultimate prize and yet I imagine that victory tasts sour because it is ill gotten. They have bought the Premier League. They haven't earned it. they've bought it.

Manchester City used to stand for something. It was the Manchester club without the riches that always fought for top flight football, occasionally got it and occasionally won something. They fashioned themselves as the honest team in Manchester. Now they are the dishonest team. United are City and City are United. For many a Sky Blue this is the start of a time when their club will become unrecognisable. The values the club once had will mean nothing; its history a sad footnote that the present owners will have no time for and will play no part, unless airbrushed, in any future retelling of the club's history.

City have bought the league. They've also stolen football from all of us. They stole our right to see a fair and balanced competition this season, and they'll be stealing our right to see future fairness in football. Arsene Wenger is right. They should be thrown out of the European Cup. If they can't play by the rules, then they should not be allowed in the competition. Where is the incentive for other clubs to play by the rules if one club is allowed to walk over the guidelines using their deep pocket resources.

The same should apply to the Premier League. City should be docked points rather than fined. What does a rich owner care about a 50 or 60 million euro fine? It's a small price to pay for success. It's half a Gareth Bale for goodness sake! The reason City haven't reached a settlement is because UEFA are trying to hit them where it hurts with restrictions on their squads. A fine sentiment, but why the negotiations? The rules should be clear and the punishment metered out. Squad sizes mean little though, especially when City will still be in the richest competition in the world. No, it's points that win prizes and points that give a team entry to competitions and make them attractive to the top players. That's where the punishment should start.

All this only adds to a culture in sport where managers whine about money being made for transfers. Where do they think this money comes from? Does it grow on trees? Unless you have a rich owner step in, nobody can afford to subsidise a club. Then when you do, your club becomes the ego statement; the portfolio value and the play thing of a too often rich foreign owner. It becomes part of an investment strategy. Do you want to support an investment strategy? Short-term like a drug it'll give you a high, but when you come down - boy will you come down.

Well done City. Unfortunately, I have no respect for you whatsoever.

Spot on. I bloody hate Man City, Chelsea and their like. Football shouldn't be about who has the most money. Foreign owners are an unwelcome feature in the British game. What do they know or care about the clubs they have "bought"?

 

[goldstone]

Those smaller clubs that say that have a very good point.

That is one thing that makes me a bit uneasy at present. Hope we haven't become a Billy Big Bollocks in the Championship?

Have to say I was cheering for Orient last night. So nice to see a small club doing well, particularly a small club with an ex-Albion manager and two ex-Albion players. Really hope they win at Wembley.

 

[keaton]

So when was the last romantic title win?

 

[Wozza]

A long discussion? Ok, fair enough, but let me guess...

Mark Pougatch, Ian Ladyman and Gab Marcotti.

 

[Napper]

So when was the last romantic title win?

Arsenal going unbeatable to win it maybe

Looking back Blackburn 1995 but at the time it was worse than City winning it now.

Leeds 92 perhaps

Villa 81

 

[Hamilton]

I'm reading Red or Dead at the moment and what's so alien is how open the leagues were then. A team could win the title one season and be relegated two seasons after that.

 

[father_and_son]

Outstanding article and good debate on here. The rot really started with the formation of the Premier League and the breaking of the old way football finances were split among all 92 clubs. There was more care for the wider football community before then. The Premier League has become so predictable and dull at the top, not to mention devoid of English players. A corporate oligarchy that tries to persuade fans to care more about 4th place and Champions League cash than actually winning anything. The broadcasters join in with this lie, implying that football only started in the early 90s with every drooling sycophantic platitude they utter.

I love football but have lost interest in the PL and don't value these titles bought by the highest bidder. Who cares? So bored I would struggle to name the City team.

This. I completely fail to hold a decent conversation with my son about any PL side. Every one descending to me using the same answer... "you know I don't care about premier league football". The sooner the "elite" teams are removed to play in a European "super league" the better. Leave behind a division which can be competitive and where any team can beat any other.