Knight -reason for few signings?

[El Presidente]

Apologies.......but my argument for the first season at Withdean still has its merits. Of course you will factor in the return to Sussex, but likewise your example of the last year at the Goldstone hardly promised "hope for the future".

We did not spend money in the first season at the Withdean, so I think the decent crowds were a novelty factor to be honest.

The next season we gambled on BZ and it came off, he was not a 'name' player, so would not have attracted fans on the basis of your argument.

 

[cjd]

We did not spend money in the first season at the Withdean, so I think the decent crowds were a novelty factor to be honest.

The next season we gambled on BZ and it came off, he was not a 'name' player, so would not have attracted fans on the basis of your argument.

I thought we spent a considerable amount of money the first season back at withdean. the first team was littered with new players.Did we not have "one of the biggest budgets" for a Div 4 team..?
As regards BZ, his reputation in last few games of the previous season whilst on loan, guaranteed "bums on seats", and the belief that this club meant business.

 

[queens park pete]

All interesting discussions, shame to see the usual Knight knockers running the usual stories.

However the thread originally started with the observation that Knight's Problem was that he was honest, as opposed to bent like assorted other chairmen who were happy to make the irregular payments which DK has avoided doing?

 

[RexCathedra]

, the board are currently subsidising the club to the tune of about £10,000 a week, you are asking them to double this, with no certainty that the players signed would actually make a difference.

Does anyone expect the LSO to 'invest' in a new first-stand cellist? If I am a member of the Tate, what ROI can I expect?

Does anybody know how many of the 92 actually turn a profit, considered as businesses? And how many of those are non-Premiership sides?

BHA is, except in the eyes of the law, and many of this board's denizens, a philanthropy.

 

[Les Biehn]

The trouble is with Knight it's always the same excuses isn't it? 'We don't want to go in to administration', 'Falmer takes up a large portion of our budget', 'we have a crap stadium that no one wants to come to'. For God's sake Dick get a grip, dodgy deals and spending outside your means with no looking towards the future is how you get things done!

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

If you were a player, why WOULD you want to play at Withdean?

Good point, maybe someone should ask any one of the great players Adams and Coppell brought to the Albion.

 

[B.W.]

All interesting discussions, shame to see the usual Knight knockers running the usual stories.

However the thread originally started with the observation that Knight's Problem was that he was honest, as opposed to bent like assorted other chairmen who were happy to make the irregular payments which DK has avoided doing?

For balance, I would just like tp say that this thread also includes the usual Knight apologists, who routinely fail to see the importance of investment in the playing side...

Yes. DK is honest, and deserves credit for that...

 

[Braders]

Okay, there are some ....many things about Withdean that are lame, and barely a hotbed football theatre for top gladiators - but it has a nice flat playing field, and Brighton area is a nice place to live, and an honest historic club with focussed aspirations to succeed.
Join now, before we build Falmer, and be a true HERO of Albion fans all over the world.

exactly.. or use us as a springboard to better things, eithers good..

 

[Yorkie]

For balance, I would just like tp say that this thread also includes the usual Knight apologists, who routinely fail to see the importance of investment in the playing side...

Yes. DK is honest, and deserves credit for that...

Money on players is a gamble not an investment as Leeds and Forest have found to their cost. Players who cost a lot don't necessarily do well at a different club. There are no guarantees.

 

[cjd]

Money on players is a gamble not an investment as Leeds and Forest have found to their cost. Players who cost a lot don't necessarily do well at a different club. There are no guarantees.

A personal opinion of course................but I would call the purchase of some quality players, an investment for the clubs future. The idea of giving all the players who only just succeeded in avoiding relegation last season and "hoping" that this year will be enough to go for promotion.........a gamble.

 

[Scotty Mac]

Alternatively it could be that we are skint and that most players are currently on holiday.

If you were a player, why WOULD you want to play at Withdean?

as it is a professional football club

the facilites are not a problem. the new changing rooms are arguably better than most in our division

 

[El Presidente]

A personal opinion of course................but I would call the purchase of some quality players, an investment for the clubs future. The idea of giving all the players who only just succeeded in avoiding relegation last season and "hoping" that this year will be enough to go for promotion.........a gamble.

Last season we signed Elder, Revell, Savage, Bertin, Ward, Rehman, Whing. Some of them were loanees, but Whing is back, Bertin has been offered a contract, and we have had talks with QPR about Rehman.

Falmer cost talk is I fully accept that, but the board have made a decision to place Falmer above the playing budget. That is their call, as they are subsidising the club to £10k a week.

If you think it is wrong then fair enough, but the alternative is finding a board who are prepared to subsidise the club £20k a week, and I am not sure there are too many people willing to do that.

 

[BensGrandad]

Is it not true that most of the money being paid to keep the club afloat is being paid by persons who are not on the board or directors of the club, mainly by their own choice.

I feel that the problems lies not in what DK is doing to keep the club afloat, although the debt is, I think and I am sure I will be put right, higher than it has ever been. but in the fact that he has publicly stated on air that he expects us to be pushing for promotion, but with the same players who just avoided relegation last season. There is no logic to that whatsoever.

 

[Gwylan]

A personal opinion of course................but I would call the purchase of some quality players, an investment for the clubs future.

That's just not true. Yorkie was absolutely right. the purchase of any player is a gamble not an investment: football is littered with players who have cost big money and flopped at clubs: look at Shevshenko, you couldn't get a better pedigree than him, yet he's not hacked it. Even great managers have failed - Brian Clough used to say ruefully that he was a terrible judge of a striker.

If there was a magic formula to know whether a player would succeed or not, then of course we should pay for success. But there's not: we could buy a player for £200k, find he's complete failure and find that our 'asset' is worth next to nothing: footballers aren't like houses; their value doesn't automatically rise. Would you say that plumping £100k of the club's money on the 4.30 at Kempton is an investment too?

 

[murciagull]

There was a question on here a while ago asking if you won the lottery jackpot would you invest the money in the Albion, a lot of people said yes,IF we got Falmer.
perhaps Dick Knight feels the same way.

It will be interesting to see what happens on the transfer front after the July 9th

 

[cjd]

That's just not true. Yorkie was absolutely right. the purchase of any player is a gamble not an investment: football is littered with players who have cost big money and flopped at clubs: look at Shevshenko, you couldn't get a better pedigree than him, yet he's not hacked it. Even great managers have failed - Brian Clough used to say ruefully that he was a terrible judge of a striker.

If there was a magic formula to know whether a player would succeed or not, then of course we should pay for success. But there's not: we could buy a player for £200k, find he's complete failure and find that our 'asset' is worth next to nothing: footballers aren't like houses; their value doesn't automatically rise. Would you say that plumping £100k of the club's money on the 4.30 at Kempton is an investment too?

Thankyou for your input on this discussion, ( I,m sorry you had to resort to a churlish question at the end). As I stated ,it was a personal opinion.You, of course are quite right in saying that football is "littered" with players who have cost big money, and have failed.On the other side of the coin, I know of NO club that has succeeded recently without a substantial investment/gamble on players. I see from your profile, that you are like me, a long standing supporter. Many years ago, an astute manager could pick up players for nothing, mould them into his way of thinking, and be successful. Those days, sadly, are long gone.
Although I thought I had made my stance on investment/gamble clear earlier on, I was arguing the case for buying better players to enable the club to generate more enthusasm and interest in the club, thereby, INCREASING attendances,(we seem to be heading for about 3500 empty seats each game) and not solely for the purpose of striding through the leagues.
I dearly wish the Albion to be able to carry on as a viable club, in the football league.The hardcore attendance figures over the last few years are continuing to fall.Without filling up those empty seats our club has a limited lfe span.
Our opnions may differ on the route taken, with regards to investment/gambling, but I have long believed that football at the Withdean in an athletics stadium with poor facilties and no roof, is unsustainable, unless it is reflected in good results, performances and players on the pitch. To enable this, I believe more investment was needed.(not the madness of Leeds United a few years ago, but simply, enough investment to help put "bums on seats").
With regards to El Presidente,s statement about Sheffield Wednesday,did they not, the season before last, invest minimally on a couple of forwards to avoid relegation (which they succeeded in doing ).
With regards to Notts Forest (Yorkie), I remember them selling Reid and Dawson for large fees, and then failing to invest much of that money.To be fair to them though, they did miss Tyson for much of the season.
To a degree of course, if the answer to falmer is a "YES", then much of the boards policy will be vindicated. But I worry, how many of the new generation of supporters are already lost to the big clubs,partly because of their saturation coverage in the media.....but partly because the lack of investment/gambling by the present board has left them with little alternative. There,s not much street cred with supporting an ailing club.
I have enjoyed the discussion on this subject and accept others point of view.
Thankyou.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

One fact people are overlooking with regard to filling Withdean, is just how fickle football fans are.

I put it to you, that in terms of attendances alone, promotion is no panacea. We would actually get better crowds if we were at the top end of this division, winning a lot of home games, than if we were struggling in the Championship.

For the long term builiding of the club, to reach the play-offs in each of the next three seasons but not actually go up, until the third would probably be the ideal scenario.

Of course that is just being sensible. As an irrational football fan I want us in the premier league in two years.

 

[Brighton Breezy]

I put it to you, that in terms of attendances alone, promotion is no panacea. We would actually get better crowds if we were at the top end of this division, winning a lot of home games, than if we were struggling in the Championship.

But away sides would bring an additional 800 in some cases and you only need to look at the gates when we played Forest and Bristol City to see that people and in particular kids want to come and watch us against good teams.

 

[NS Herald]

I have read just about everything written on this thread and seen the points on all sides. However those in favour of more investment on new players should remember this club is unique in that ALL investment is effectively unsecured as we have NO assets. The balancing act the directors have to follow must be a nightmare until we get our own stadium and in the meantime they are thick skinned enough to put up with all the criticism that comes their way. It isn't their fault that many fans have so little idea of the business principles involved but it must be frutrating to hear so much twaddle spouted by so many.

They may not be the best directors in the world but they should damm well be given the credit they deserve for coping with this nightmare scenario for so long whilst at the same time having some decent players and very good managers keeping the fans entertained 'most of the time'.

DW may not be the best manager in the world but he knew the circumstances he was getting involved in and we as fans should show a little more patience and support in 'average' footballing times as well as good.

 

[Publius Ovidius]

I understand what you are saying, but there is no guarantee it would work, Leeds spent about £5million on players in 2005/6 and look what happened to them last season.

There is a further issue, the board are currently subsidising the club to the tune of about £10,000 a week, you are asking them to double this, with no certainty that the players signed would actually make a difference. Remember Jason Peake, the last player we signed for a six figure sum before BZ? There are plenty of others who were a total waste too, such as Mark Farringdon etc.

Do you know , this argument REALLY ANNOYS ME.

Every single signing in the history of football/Rugby/Cricket has been a gamble.....be it Beckham to Real Madrid or Ronaldo to ManU, Mushy to Sussex or Wilkinson To Newcastle falcons

You see a player and you make a decision to buy him. If he falls down a manhole on his way to the ground or if he plays 500 games on the trot, you will never know.

All this bollox about....Oh we mustn't spend any money on this or that player as he may be a Jason Peake or a mark farrington......what about Zamora then. He cost 100k and we sold him for a million odd with him scoring goals all over the shop.

To get people who have fallen out of love with the Albion we MUST get players in ....the current crop with all due respect to them are NOT ATTRACTIVE to watch and people are voting with their feet and not renewing ( my Brother in Law is a perfect example of this)