[Politics] Johnson resigns from parliament

[Lever]

Well....they all had their snouts in the trough....from every political persuasion.....over the expenses scandal....which had been going on for years and apart from a few, inconsequential, sacrificial lambs....and some pathetic gestures to repay monies incorrectly claimed.......was brushed under the carpet.
Not much difference there.

It is certainly true that some individuals (from all major parties) took criminal advantage of expenses. I am not sure who you mean by 'a few, inconsequential, sacrificial lambs' though.

However, your comment has a similar 'populist' inclination to the one expressed by @wehatepalace .... that is 'all politicians are the same' (they are not) and they 'all had their snouts in the trough' (they did not).

Do you ever feel that you are being engineered to react in this way? That is not meant as an insult and I do hope you will consider the proposition seriously before responding (assuming you can be bothered to).....

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

This all day long. Any rational observer of both our relative standing in the world, and our quality of life, can see that Conservatism in its present form doesn’t work.

The ‘tax cut, tax cut, tax cut” rhetoric has provably failed. It’s proven an act of self-sabotage, damaging our national infrastructure in a manner that will cost more in public money to repair than it would’ve if it had just been run competently in the first place.

Add to that being repeatedly and openly lied to by a man who was a known and proven liar, yet was selected by the Conservative Party as fit for the highest office in the land, and anyone of good faith of any political stripe with the welfare of their country at heart, should have no qualms in loudly and quickly condemning both Johnson and the Conservative Party’s judgment for selecting him.

I can absolutely accept having no love for Labour, they’re far from flawless, but to proclaim “they’re all as bad as each other” is the last refuge of the scoundrel.

They are not all as bad as each other. If @wehatepalace and those who think like them can’t see the difference, that problem is theirs.

This. And elegantly explained for the hard of thinking.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

There are some brilliant Conservative MPs who genuinely work very hard at a local level, but just like with every political party, there are Conservative candidates that anyone who cares about Britain should really not be voting for.

Given that Boris Johnson was selected as leader, they appear to have reached critical mass, because they effectively chose a snake oil salesman to try and sell unachievable visions to their voters, instead of a serious politician.

Don’t forget that Johnson single-handedly purged the party of centrist and moderate candidates, and effectively turned the Conservative Party into “Super UKIP”. UKIP never managed to gain any significant political foothold in the country, and that’s the platform that Johnson wanted the Conservative Party to bat on.

If the Conservatives are smart, they’ll ensure Johnson does not return, but I fear his divisive rhetoric will outlive him unless the Conservative Party gets its house in order. He’s brought a little bit of Trumpism and US style politics to Britain, and I for one will never forgive him. Whenever Boris Johnson’s name is mentioned in a news context, it should be prefaced with the words “national embarrassment”.

Agree with all that.
I was being unnecessarily fatuous about the people who refuse to countenance voting for any other party.
Of course, there are people of that bent across the political spectrum, but given the state of the Conservative government over the last few years it really stretches my capacity for empathy to understand how anybody can vote for them bar the odd exceptional MP.

 

[Guinness Boy]

This is all very bear pitish and personal now. Please cut it out - and I mean all of you currently on this thread.

 

[chickens]

Agree with all that.

I was being unnecessarily fatuous about the people who refuse to countenance voting for any other party.
Of course, there are people of that bent across the political spectrum, but given the state of the Conservative government over the last few years it really stretches my capacity for empathy to understand how anybody can vote for them bar the odd exceptional MP.

To my mind you would have to be either a member of the Conservative Party, or the devoted friend/relative of a Conservative MP or councillor to vote for this incarnation of the Conservative Party.

However, I don’t doubt that they will surprise me by not all losing their deposits at the next general election, which is what their systemic incompetence at a national level deserves.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

BJ never won the 2019 election, Dominic Cummings did. He was smart enough to overlay a grid of previous GE voting with a grid of Brexit voting. And instantly realised that very many Labour Red Wall MPs were putting their own personal views above those of the majority of their constituents, and thwarting the Brexit enactment at every turn. So, yeah, Cummings enabled BJ massively. And now that Brexit has been enacted - for better or worse - then Labour's Red Wall will return to it's natural equilibrium. 2019 was a pure one-off

 

[A1X]

Well....they all had their snouts in the trough....from every political persuasion.....over the expenses scandal....which had been going on for years and apart from a few, inconsequential, sacrificial lambs....and some pathetic gestures to repay monies incorrectly claimed.......was brushed under the carpet.
Not much difference there.

So the evidence that “they’re all as bad as each other” is a scandal from 2008? 15 years ago?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Which wokeworrier is apparently denying.

Would be interesting to see the truth coming out here, because as you point out, he's always come across as a repugnant individual.

And this isn't a left v right bias coming out. I say that as someone who has always felt you come across as a decent bloke despite crossing swords with you politically down the years.

I do hope the tories can sort themselves out and reinvent themselves as Cameron tried to do (only, that was all pretend - do it for real next time please). Touching base with the 'post war consensus' would be a start. The floating voter needs to believe the tories want to make the NHS great again, rather than destroy it, flog off the bits that still work, and lower taxes. They want to know that the laws of the land apply to the rich and privileged as well us us plebs. And while I commend the tories for demonstrating that ethnic minorities and women can rise to the top in their ranks, they need to beware of try-hards who seem to feel that being even more populist and reactionary than their white male colleagues is the best path to glory. Show a bit of compassion. The sight of Sue Ellen Braverman being cruel to refugees is one of the more nauseating spectacles of the recent era.

We need the tories to sort themselves out so they can hold Labour to account. At the moment the very idea is laughable.

(Edited it to keep it out of the pit)

 

[Thunder Bolt]

So the evidence that “they’re all as bad as each other” is a scandal from 2008? 15 years ago?

Since then, we’ve had a former Prime Minister, and the present Prime Minister fined by the police. The first in the history of this country, but yeah, they’re all the same.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

I agree with you that Brexit is a symptom, but what is it that you think it is a symptom of?

I just remembered that I should have replied to this.
As I wrote in my previous post, it's not a subject I have any desire to discuss on this forum, so I hope you'll forgive me for not answering a reasonable question.

 

[Lyndhurst 14]

Boris is like a bad smell that just won't go away. Yet another way in which he models himself on Trump

 

[Machiavelli]

If anyone fancies a couple of minutes listening to a Tory giving the most bizzare analogy where she compared the Tory Party to a shopping basket - Go to Sunday Breakast on Radio 5 at about 2:23:45 in. It's magic.

The dissection of Johnson's resignation letter on Broadcasting House this morning is well worth a listen:

BBC Radio 4 - Broadcasting House

The Sunday morning news magazine programme. Presented by Paddy O'Connell.

www.bbc.co.uk

There's a long opening piece with Steve Richards and someone who used to work for Johnson, and it comes towards the end of that.

 

[Stat Brother]

 

[lawros left foot]

If I were an employer and an applicant gave me a CV that had 2 previous dismissals for lying, a provable back catalogue of, if not outright racism, then highly dubious comments about various ethnic minorities, a history of adultery, including, while his wife was undergoing cancer treatment, a term as an elected official that included some huge wastage of the public purse, and employing his mistress as a publicly paid consultant, who he also took on publicly funded’work’ trips, I’m pretty certain I wouldn’t have employed him.

But, the Conservative and Unionist Party did, and what’s more, they gave him the top job where he was able to facilitate the looting of an entire country.

So, who should take the lion’s share of the blame?

 

[rogersix]

If I were an employer and an applicant gave me a CV that had 2 previous dismissals for lying, a provable back catalogue of, if not outright racism, then highly dubious comments about various ethnic minorities, a history of adultery, including, while his wife was undergoing cancer treatment, a term as an elected official that included some huge wastage of the public purse, and employing his mistress as a publicly paid consultant, who he also took on publicly funded’work’ trips, I’m pretty certain I wouldn’t have employed him.

But, the Conservative and Unionist Party did, and what’s more, they gave him the top job where he was able to facilitate the looting of an entire country.

So, who should take the lion’s share of the blame?

the electorate, as bungle hasn't got the mental discipline to control his urges

 

[lawros left foot]

the electorate, as bungle hasn't got the mental discipline to control his urges

They used to say that the Conservative MPs were the most sophisticated electorate in the World, when they were electing a new leader, under the old system. And, to be fair, they used to get it right, most of the time. This from a man that detests the Tory dogma, but, from a Conservative perspective they did usually get the best man ( or woman) for the job.
Since Thatcher, the standard of Tory leaders has been steadily downhill, a few not getting to be PM, which was a blessing, as Johnson or Truss would have had more competition for the worst PM ever if they had.

The electorate in the country as a whole is quite conservative ( small c) but, more voted against Johnson than for him, but, due to the iniquitous FPTP system a whole raft of votes don’t count and the Tories end up with an 80 seat majority.

I don’t know what it is, but, it doesn’t feel like democracy.

 

[Lever]

The secret of Johnson's success is sincerity. Once he found he could fake that he knew he had it made.... (adapted from Jean Giraudoux with thanks)

 

[rogersix]

The electorate in the country as a whole is quite conservative ( small c) but, more voted against Johnson than for him, but, due to the iniquitous FPTP system a whole raft of votes don’t count and the Tories end up with an 80 seat majority.

I don’t know what it is, but, it doesn’t feel like democracy.

it's counter-productive

 

[Blackadder]

Sturgeon has knocked Boris off the front page. He will be furious.

 

[Machiavelli]

They used to say that the Conservative MPs were the most sophisticated electorate in the World, when they were electing a new leader, under the old system. And, to be fair, they used to get it right, most of the time. This from a man that detests the Tory dogma, but, from a Conservative perspective they did usually get the best man ( or woman) for the job.
Since Thatcher, the standard of Tory leaders has been steadily downhill, a few not getting to be PM, which was a blessing, as Johnson or Truss would have had more competition for the worst PM ever if they had.

The electorate in the country as a whole is quite conservative ( small c) but, more voted against Johnson than for him, but, due to the iniquitous FPTP system a whole raft of votes don’t count and the Tories end up with an 80 seat majority.

I don’t know what it is, but, it doesn’t feel like democracy.

Like you, I'm no fan of them, but think you're being a little unfair on their leaders there.
Thatcher was brilliant enough to pursue a project that transformed the country but, since her, I don't think you can question the integrity and competence of Major, Cameron or May in fulfilling the role. Even Sunak has restored some credibility in extremely difficult circumstances. It's only Johnson and Truss, and they were both thrust upon us ultimately by the membership (although the MPs did play an earlier role).