John Cat under surveillance

[Freddie Goodwin.]

I think the most damaging and hurtful thing anybody could ever do to Mr catt would be to ignore him. he's just a pain in the butt.

 

[mona]

I'm absolutely terrified by our police (including the ones who post on here) and I'm delighted that Mr Catt is standing up against the repressive, fascist state that we live in. When I visit areas of SE London my main concern is that the police will jump me and I will become one of the disappeared ones. This country is now like Argentina in the 70s. DNA banks are a dreadful threat to civil liberties they might stop serial rapists from abusing women's civil liberties. CCTV is a terrible threat to our society. Switch it off.

John Catt is a saint. He stands up for his civil liberties so that he can prevent others from enjoying the occasional football match. Football fans don't have civil liberties as they are usually ignorant oiks who don't have lawyer daughters intent on screwing money out of the system. Mr Catt is a hero of the libertarian left and he is saving us from the fascists who threaten us all.

:vuvu2:
:vuvu2:

 

[desprateseagull]

is it just him, or everyone who attends..?

dont remember tony hart (bbc artist) ever been folowed by the rozzers..

 

[Collar Feeler]

I'm not going to respond abusively. But the revelation - that hundreds of intel reports are generated daily by police officers who don't think that the subjects of the reports have any right to see them - is PRECISELY what people think goes on in a Police State.

I'm not sure how you have made the assumption that the police officers generating the intel reports think people don't have a right to see them?!? If I generate an intel report, I then submit it and thats the last I'll ever see or hear about it, whether the persons or subjects of that intel report get access to it is not my concern or responsibility, that's down to whoever controls, collates, analyses and disseminate the reports. I have to say that over the years I have seen numerous examples of intel reports submitted that have been rejected (and by that they are not logged and used) because the controller(s) have deemed them unsuitable, not of any value or simply crap! It isn't a case of every single report being logged and stored and kept in a secret file somewhere.

 

[Deleted User X18H]

This sort of thing has always gone on. And, yes. It's an affront to what most people imagine their "civil liberties" are. Let me tell you a story ...

In the late 1980s, the UK had a civil defence policy that was all about preparing for a possible nuclear attack by the Soviet Union. In the event of such an attack occurring, the basic plan was to replace national government by a network of regional administrations, staffed by civil servants and people from local government. Because I was the manager of a county council's transport group, my job was designated as one of the jobs that would go into a post-bomb organisation headed up by a Regional Transport Commissioner.

I had to be trained to prepare for this exciting eventuality. This meant being sent off to a series of events at what was then the government's Civil Defence College at Easingwold in North Yorkshire.

The first time I went, I had a very strange conversation (in the bar) with a senior Army officer, who sought me out. "Ah", he said. "You're Ed B. We had a bit of trouble getting you through the vetting process. But it's all been sorted out now. Welcome to Easingwold". I tried to find out what the problem had been, but all he would say was that he'd seen the file and it contained an assurance from East Sussex County Council's Emergency Planning Officer (an ex-military person) that my activities posed no threat and that I could be trusted to do my job in the civil defence set up.

Very strange. What were these "activities"?

I was a branch officer in the East Sussex branch of NALGO - and therefore rubbed shoulders with a few "looney lefties" But this was probably true of anyone who was half-active in a trade union at the time and I don't think it was seen as a real issue by anyone. Certainly not serious enough to be drawn to the attention of a senior Army officer. I think it was something else.

At the time, I was a member of a band. The guy who ran the band had been (about 15 years earlier) an active member of the Young Communist League. He'd pretty much given up active politics, and was a mature student at Sussex University. But he - and his "associates" - were obviously still being "watched". The band used to play a monthly session - part rehearsal, part performance - in the bar of my local pub.

About six months before my first visit to Easingwold, there had been a very odd occurrence in the pub. A couple of men in suits turned up at about 7.00pm on the night that the band was playing. It being very early - too early for any of the band to have arrived - they fell into conversation with the landlord of the pub and the topic turned to music. They then started asking all sorts of questions about the band - who they were, who came to hear them, whether there was ever any trouble, etc. Odd enough questions to make the landlord enquire why they were interested. "No particular reason" was the response. "We're just interested in how a country pub works. It must be good for business to get people coming out on a Monday night in winter". They then revealed to the landlord that they were a couple of police officers and thought that they might stay to enjoy the music. Which they did. When the band eventually showed up, the landlord tipped us off - "There are a couple of blokes from Special Branch sitting in the corner". They two coppers stayed until about 9.00pm and then left.

All very interesting. All rather worrying, in a way. All very pointless, I'm sure. But it suddenly made sense, when I had that conversation with the Army officer.

Yes. We do live in a surveillance society. Fortunately, the Soviets never dropped their bomb. And I never got the chance to sabotage the national civil defence programme.

I've always promised myself that I would eventually ask to see the file. But - to be truthful - I can't be arsed.

Have they repeated Threads again recently??

 

[The Large One]

I'm not sure how you have made the assumption that the police officers generating the intel reports think people don't have a right to see them?!? If I generate an intel report, I then submit it and thats the last I'll ever see or hear about it, whether the persons or subjects of that intel report get access to it is not my concern or responsibility, that's down to whoever controls, collates, analyses and disseminate the reports. I have to say that over the years I have seen numerous examples of intel reports submitted that have been rejected (and by that they are not logged and used) because the controller(s) have deemed them unsuitable, not of any value or simply crap! It isn't a case of every single report being logged and stored and kept in a secret file somewhere.

From the article

Police said they did not legally have to disclose them, but did so to show there was "nothing sinister in what we hold".

So what happens if there was something 'sinister?'

 

[Zebedee]

This is all true as are Lord B's points but I am finding it very difficult to summon up any sympathy at all for Mr Catt. John Catt under patio works for me.

Me too. I'll bring the shovel.

 

[Superphil]

John Catt is a **** stick. End of thread.

 

[drew]

I'm absolutely terrified by our police (including the ones who post on here) and I'm delighted that Mr Catt is standing up against the repressive, fascist state that we live in. When I visit areas of SE London my main concern is that the police will jump me and I will become one of the disappeared ones. This country is now like Argentina in the 70s. DNA banks are a dreadful threat to civil liberties they might stop serial rapists from abusing women's civil liberties. CCTV is a terrible threat to our society. Switch it off.

John Catt is a saint. He stands up for his civil liberties so that he can prevent others from enjoying the occasional football match. Football fans don't have civil liberties as they are usually ignorant oiks who don't have lawyer daughters intent on screwing money out of the system. Mr Catt is a hero of the libertarian left and he is saving us from the fascists who threaten us all.

:vuvu2:
:vuvu2:

Can you explain what experience of Argentina you actually have to be able to make a comparison? Hasn't it been suggested that over 30,000 people 'disappeared' during the 70s in Argentina. Exactly how many cases are you aware of in this country that have suffered a similar fate. Christ, we protect the human rights of terrorists, don't you think it would be considerable easier and less expensive if we just made them 'disappear'.

In truth, I am more fearful of hysterical rantings like yours than of any alleged Police state.

 

[Collar Feeler]

From the article

Police said they did not legally have to disclose them, but did so to show there was "nothing sinister in what we hold".

So what happens if there was something 'sinister?'

That's a good point but relates to the Police as an organisation rather than individual police officers which is how I read it. It's a moot point I guess.

If there is something 'sinister' or to put it better 'intelligence of a useful nature' then what would be the point of disclosing it?! Its absolutely true though that the Police are under no obligation whatsoever to disclose intelligence information. It is not covered under the FOI act and its a matter for debate whether that is right or wrong. On the one hand, the vast majority of intel reports are legitimate reports on known criminals involved in criminal activity or their behaviours, associates etc, I'm sure most reasonable people are happy with that in order to keep one step ahead of and target these known criminals and the crimes they are committing. On the other hand I'm sure that reports are submitted that are in a grey area and their value questionable and I'd be a fool not to concede that there must be reports submitted on occasion that are simply downright unnecessary and of no value whatsoever. Knowing how the system works however I like to think that those reports are properly weeded out and not used.

 

[mona]

Can you explain what experience of Argentina you actually have to be able to make a comparison? Hasn't it been suggested that over 30,000 people 'disappeared' during the 70s in Argentina. Exactly how many cases are you aware of in this country that have suffered a similar fate. Christ, we protect the human rights of terrorists, don't you think it would be considerable easier and less expensive if we just made them 'disappear'.

In truth, I am more fearful of hysterical rantings like yours than of any alleged Police state.

mmmm I really am a failure. My post was meant to be ironical. I was trying to satirise the ideology of the civil liberties lobby. The closest I've been to Argentina is seeing them play twice at Wembley. I was one of the 2000 Albion fans kettled at Norwood Junction by the Mets after the 5-0 but I don't think we live in a police state. Lets leave that to the Trotskyites who post on here. I won't name them....Dandyman.

 

[bhaexpress]

Slightly off topic but John Catt is not a young man and it would more than a little ironic if he passed before we left Withdean. I hope he doesn't because I can see him finding something else to stir about when we move to Falmer.

 

[Tony Meolas Loan Spell]

Slightly off topic but John Catt is not a young man and it would more than a little ironic if he passed before we left Withdean. I hope he doesn't because I can see him finding something else to stir about when we move to Falmer.

He will probably have a moan that we are LEAVING Withdean! No doubt he will be in court legally challenging our right to move out of Withers and into Falmer.

 

[bhaexpress]

He will probably have a moan that we are LEAVING Withdean! No doubt he will be in court legally challenging our right to move out of Withers and into Falmer.

I wouldn't be surprised, he's the type that's only happy being a misery.

 

[BLOCK F]

Totally agree. I think Catt is a thorough pain in the arse but this is completely over-the-top.

It does make you wonder about police budgets though, if Sussex Police have got so much money and staffing resources that they can monitor a octogenarian with sketch-pad so closely, it sounds like they're ripe for Osborne's axe.

Got to agree with that!

 

[BLOCK F]

This sort of thing has always gone on. And, yes. It's an affront to what most people imagine their "civil liberties" are. Let me tell you a story ...

In the late 1980s, the UK had a civil defence policy that was all about preparing for a possible nuclear attack by the Soviet Union. In the event of such an attack occurring, the basic plan was to replace national government by a network of regional administrations, staffed by civil servants and people from local government. Because I was the manager of a county council's transport group, my job was designated as one of the jobs that would go into a post-bomb organisation headed up by a Regional Transport Commissioner.

I had to be trained to prepare for this exciting eventuality. This meant being sent off to a series of events at what was then the government's Civil Defence College at Easingwold in North Yorkshire.

The first time I went, I had a very strange conversation (in the bar) with a senior Army officer, who sought me out. "Ah", he said. "You're Ed B. We had a bit of trouble getting you through the vetting process. But it's all been sorted out now. Welcome to Easingwold". I tried to find out what the problem had been, but all he would say was that he'd seen the file and it contained an assurance from East Sussex County Council's Emergency Planning Officer (an ex-military person) that my activities posed no threat and that I could be trusted to do my job in the civil defence set up.

Very strange. What were these "activities"?

I was a branch officer in the East Sussex branch of NALGO - and therefore rubbed shoulders with a few "looney lefties" But this was probably true of anyone who was half-active in a trade union at the time and I don't think it was seen as a real issue by anyone. Certainly not serious enough to be drawn to the attention of a senior Army officer. I think it was something else.

At the time, I was a member of a band. The guy who ran the band had been (about 15 years earlier) an active member of the Young Communist League. He'd pretty much given up active politics, and was a mature student at Sussex University. But he - and his "associates" - were obviously still being "watched". The band used to play a monthly session - part rehearsal, part performance - in the bar of my local pub.

About six months before my first visit to Easingwold, there had been a very odd occurrence in the pub. A couple of men in suits turned up at about 7.00pm on the night that the band was playing. It being very early - too early for any of the band to have arrived - they fell into conversation with the landlord of the pub and the topic turned to music. They then started asking all sorts of questions about the band - who they were, who came to hear them, whether there was ever any trouble, etc. Odd enough questions to make the landlord enquire why they were interested. "No particular reason" was the response. "We're just interested in how a country pub works. It must be good for business to get people coming out on a Monday night in winter". They then revealed to the landlord that they were a couple of police officers and thought that they might stay to enjoy the music. Which they did. When the band eventually showed up, the landlord tipped us off - "There are a couple of blokes from Special Branch sitting in the corner". They two coppers stayed until about 9.00pm and then left.

All very interesting. All rather worrying, in a way. All very pointless, I'm sure. But it suddenly made sense, when I had that conversation with the Army officer.

Yes. We do live in a surveillance society. Fortunately, the Soviets never dropped their bomb. And I never got the chance to sabotage the national civil defence programme.

I've always promised myself that I would eventually ask to see the file. But - to be truthful - I can't be arsed.

Fascinating story...perhaps NSC will now be monitored by GCHQ!

 

[Tony Meolas Loan Spell]

I wouldn't be surprised, he's the type that's only happy being a misery.

As my old father in law used to say: he is one of those people where if you gave him a hundred quid in cash you would be giving it to him in the wrong hand.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Can you explain what experience of Argentina you actually have to be able to make a comparison? Hasn't it been suggested that over 30,000 people 'disappeared' during the 70s in Argentina. Exactly how many cases are you aware of in this country that have suffered a similar fate. Christ, we protect the human rights of terrorists, don't you think it would be considerable easier and less expensive if we just made them 'disappear'.

In truth, I am more fearful of hysterical rantings like yours than of any alleged Police state.

 

[chimneys]

It's great isn't it. On one hand he complains about the waste of public money and resources by the police but was quite happy to spunk public money in legal aid against the Albion.

Quite right!!

"Massive resources put towards these types of police operations is a shambles!"

And he repeated similarly towards the end of the interview.

And what of all your futile challenges to Withdean under legal aid John??!!

HYPOCRITE!!!!!

All vexatious litigants should be buried under patios!!

 

[Easy 10]

A professional busybody and a right royal pain in the arse who has cost this club (and the public purse) thousands of pounds. Sympathy rating: - 0.000000000000003