http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/jun/25/peace-campaigner-classified-domestic-extremist
Serves the old codger right or erosion of civil liberties?
Serves the old codger right or erosion of civil liberties?
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John Cat under surveillance
- Thread starter Scampi
- Start date
Can't stand the bloke but this is an absolute abuse of police power and smacks of Big Brother politics of the governement of the time. I've said it before and I'll say it again - we're becoming more and more a police state. Look at those Stoke fans who've finally got justice.
D
Deleted User X18H
Guest
Blimey is he just an old codger with an axe to grind? No. He and his daughter are attention seeking show offs. Knowing the Albion's difficulty in initially securing Withdean (before he moved there he bought his in September 99) he pounced on this when the planning application came up for review and with the help of legal aid vigorously opposed it. Thus having a bit of 'show off' time in the Argus and South Today.
Again, and in a left wing publication here he is having a good old show off and wasting valuable police resources.
Again, and in a left wing publication here he is having a good old show off and wasting valuable police resources.
Totally agree. I think Catt is a thorough pain in the arse but this is completely over-the-top.
It does make you wonder about police budgets though, if Sussex Police have got so much money and staffing resources that they can monitor a octogenarian with sketch-pad so closely, it sounds like they're ripe for Osborne's axe.
To add to the Sussex and Manchester police abuses lets also add in the extreme policing methods used at the EON demo by Kent police.
Oh, and the abuse of civil liberties regards innocent people having their DNA kept. The list goes on and on and on .......
Mileoakman
Well-known member
It's great isn't it. On one hand he complains about the waste of public money and resources by the police but was quite happy to spunk public money in legal aid against the Albion.
Lord Bracknell
On fire
This sort of thing has always gone on. And, yes. It's an affront to what most people imagine their "civil liberties" are. Let me tell you a story ...
In the late 1980s, the UK had a civil defence policy that was all about preparing for a possible nuclear attack by the Soviet Union. In the event of such an attack occurring, the basic plan was to replace national government by a network of regional administrations, staffed by civil servants and people from local government. Because I was the manager of a county council's transport group, my job was designated as one of the jobs that would go into a post-bomb organisation headed up by a Regional Transport Commissioner.
I had to be trained to prepare for this exciting eventuality. This meant being sent off to a series of events at what was then the government's Civil Defence College at Easingwold in North Yorkshire.
The first time I went, I had a very strange conversation (in the bar) with a senior Army officer, who sought me out. "Ah", he said. "You're Ed B. We had a bit of trouble getting you through the vetting process. But it's all been sorted out now. Welcome to Easingwold". I tried to find out what the problem had been, but all he would say was that he'd seen the file and it contained an assurance from East Sussex County Council's Emergency Planning Officer (an ex-military person) that my activities posed no threat and that I could be trusted to do my job in the civil defence set up.
Very strange. What were these "activities"?
I was a branch officer in the East Sussex branch of NALGO - and therefore rubbed shoulders with a few "looney lefties" But this was probably true of anyone who was half-active in a trade union at the time and I don't think it was seen as a real issue by anyone. Certainly not serious enough to be drawn to the attention of a senior Army officer. I think it was something else.
At the time, I was a member of a band. The guy who ran the band had been (about 15 years earlier) an active member of the Young Communist League. He'd pretty much given up active politics, and was a mature student at Sussex University. But he - and his "associates" - were obviously still being "watched". The band used to play a monthly session - part rehearsal, part performance - in the bar of my local pub.
About six months before my first visit to Easingwold, there had been a very odd occurrence in the pub. A couple of men in suits turned up at about 7.00pm on the night that the band was playing. It being very early - too early for any of the band to have arrived - they fell into conversation with the landlord of the pub and the topic turned to music. They then started asking all sorts of questions about the band - who they were, who came to hear them, whether there was ever any trouble, etc. Odd enough questions to make the landlord enquire why they were interested. "No particular reason" was the response. "We're just interested in how a country pub works. It must be good for business to get people coming out on a Monday night in winter". They then revealed to the landlord that they were a couple of police officers and thought that they might stay to enjoy the music. Which they did. When the band eventually showed up, the landlord tipped us off - "There are a couple of blokes from Special Branch sitting in the corner". They two coppers stayed until about 9.00pm and then left.
All very interesting. All rather worrying, in a way. All very pointless, I'm sure. But it suddenly made sense, when I had that conversation with the Army officer.
Yes. We do live in a surveillance society. Fortunately, the Soviets never dropped their bomb. And I never got the chance to sabotage the national civil defence programme.
I've always promised myself that I would eventually ask to see the file. But - to be truthful - I can't be arsed.
In the late 1980s, the UK had a civil defence policy that was all about preparing for a possible nuclear attack by the Soviet Union. In the event of such an attack occurring, the basic plan was to replace national government by a network of regional administrations, staffed by civil servants and people from local government. Because I was the manager of a county council's transport group, my job was designated as one of the jobs that would go into a post-bomb organisation headed up by a Regional Transport Commissioner.
I had to be trained to prepare for this exciting eventuality. This meant being sent off to a series of events at what was then the government's Civil Defence College at Easingwold in North Yorkshire.
The first time I went, I had a very strange conversation (in the bar) with a senior Army officer, who sought me out. "Ah", he said. "You're Ed B. We had a bit of trouble getting you through the vetting process. But it's all been sorted out now. Welcome to Easingwold". I tried to find out what the problem had been, but all he would say was that he'd seen the file and it contained an assurance from East Sussex County Council's Emergency Planning Officer (an ex-military person) that my activities posed no threat and that I could be trusted to do my job in the civil defence set up.
Very strange. What were these "activities"?
I was a branch officer in the East Sussex branch of NALGO - and therefore rubbed shoulders with a few "looney lefties" But this was probably true of anyone who was half-active in a trade union at the time and I don't think it was seen as a real issue by anyone. Certainly not serious enough to be drawn to the attention of a senior Army officer. I think it was something else.
At the time, I was a member of a band. The guy who ran the band had been (about 15 years earlier) an active member of the Young Communist League. He'd pretty much given up active politics, and was a mature student at Sussex University. But he - and his "associates" - were obviously still being "watched". The band used to play a monthly session - part rehearsal, part performance - in the bar of my local pub.
About six months before my first visit to Easingwold, there had been a very odd occurrence in the pub. A couple of men in suits turned up at about 7.00pm on the night that the band was playing. It being very early - too early for any of the band to have arrived - they fell into conversation with the landlord of the pub and the topic turned to music. They then started asking all sorts of questions about the band - who they were, who came to hear them, whether there was ever any trouble, etc. Odd enough questions to make the landlord enquire why they were interested. "No particular reason" was the response. "We're just interested in how a country pub works. It must be good for business to get people coming out on a Monday night in winter". They then revealed to the landlord that they were a couple of police officers and thought that they might stay to enjoy the music. Which they did. When the band eventually showed up, the landlord tipped us off - "There are a couple of blokes from Special Branch sitting in the corner". They two coppers stayed until about 9.00pm and then left.
All very interesting. All rather worrying, in a way. All very pointless, I'm sure. But it suddenly made sense, when I had that conversation with the Army officer.
Yes. We do live in a surveillance society. Fortunately, the Soviets never dropped their bomb. And I never got the chance to sabotage the national civil defence programme.
I've always promised myself that I would eventually ask to see the file. But - to be truthful - I can't be arsed.
mona
The Glory Game
Dave Spart is alive and well and living on NSC!
Perhaps Mr Catt should consider the civil liberties implications of his very costly anti-Withdean Stadium campaign.
The Large One
Who's Next?
Catt's behaviour over Withdean wasn't so much an affront to civil liberties, nor illegal.
It was just plain brainlessly tedious and SHIT.
It was just plain brainlessly tedious and SHIT.
Freddie Goodwin.
Well-known member
"John Catt under a patio"
Now THAT would be a thread worth reading!
Now THAT would be a thread worth reading!
dougdeep
New member
Too much time on his hands. Hopefully he won't live much longer.
What?
- Jul 7, 2003
- 47,240
This from the bloke who stands outside his house noting details of car drivers and registrations when the Albion play at home.
Is he going to publish details of what information he keeps on Albion fans?
Is he going to publish details of what information he keeps on Albion fans?
Collar Feeler
No longer feeling collars
- Jul 26, 2003
- 1,322
I love the way this is portrayed as car loads of undercover cops keeping this fella under constant surveillance at the taxpayers expense when the reality is they are just intel reports on a known person submitted by ordinary plod when he has been seen at various demos etc. Just one of hundreds of intel reports generated daily about all manner of things. Intel info is just that more often than not its never used or actioned upon just logged for info. I don't think intelligence information is completely covered by freedom of information act etc, I may be wrong but I'm sure I recall reading that it can be witheld under certain circumstances. Obviously this chaps info was of no value whatsoever which is why he was granted access to it.
Not saying any of this is right or wrong before the resident NSC police haters start their usual torrent of abuse!
Not saying any of this is right or wrong before the resident NSC police haters start their usual torrent of abuse!
Lord Bracknell
On fire
I love the way this is portrayed as car loads of undercover cops keeping this fella under constant surveillance at the taxpayers expense when the reality is they are just intel reports on a known person submitted by ordinary plod when he has been seen at various demos etc. Just one of hundreds of intel reports generated daily about all manner of things. Intel info is just that more often than not its never used or actioned upon just logged for info. I don't think intelligence information is completely covered by freedom of information act etc, I may be wrong but I'm sure I recall reading that it can be witheld under certain circumstances. Obviously this chaps info was of no value whatsoever which is why he was granted access to it.
Not saying any of this is right or wrong before the resident NSC police haters start their usual torrent of abuse!
I'm not going to respond abusively. But the revelation - that hundreds of intel reports are generated daily by police officers who don't think that the subjects of the reports have any right to see them - is PRECISELY what people think goes on in a Police State.
It does sound very East German or USSR !
Tom Hark Preston Park
Will Post For Cash
- Jul 6, 2003
- 70,564
If somebody like John Catt is under observation to that extent, then it brings it home that State surveillance goes wider and deeper than it has any right to. It's John Catt's absolute right to lawfully protest against the Albion and EDO and anyone else that takes his fancy. We might not like it, but in a democracy we live with it. How f***ing dare Sussex Police keep tabs on the bloke for that and feed their findings on to other agencies who then flag him up as some kind of Enemy Of The State. Thin edge of the wedge and where does it stop?
The Merry Prankster
Pactum serva
This is all true as are Lord B's points but I am finding it very difficult to summon up any sympathy at all for Mr Catt. John Catt under patio works for me.