James Mclean - Sunderland refused to wear shirt with poppy on

[JCL666]

Not really, call me cynical but i doubt fighting facsism and defending free speech was uppermost in most blokes minds, stopping a german invasion probably was.

Tbh I think it was probably more like they did it because they were told to. E.g conscription.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

I think he is a pratt because he comes to ply his trade here and then insults much of the population, do I lose sleep no, do I care for his story, no.

He is a bigot, I have been to NI and its a good place to find one, quite frankly they can keep there spiteful little views to themselves.

If they wish to come and live and work here and lets face it he is very privileged, then just finding the good grace to accept an important symbol of his host nation, thats all.

The poppy isn't a 'symbol of his host nation'.

 

[salty seagull]

Because it's nonsense. For example, we didn't get involved in the second world war because of a British cause.

I would think any conflict in which our sevicemen are fighting in would automatically become a British cause. Was it not in Britains interest to defeat Hitler? You are talking nonsense.

 

[User removed 4]

The poppy isn't a 'symbol of his host nation'.

Who appointed you arbiter on this ? The poppy, unfortunate though it may be, has morphed into a clear divide between those who support our troops and dont mind showing it , and those who dont , despite all the mealy mouthed protests to the contrary.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Who appointed you arbiter on this ? The poppy, unfortunate though it may be, has morphed into a clear divide between those who support our troops and dont mind showing it , and those who dont , despite all the mealy mouthed protests to the contrary.

Pipe down bushy. No-one appointed me 'arbiter'. Its a very clear statement of fact. The poppy isn't a 'symbol of Britain'. Ask 100 people in the street what the poppy symbolises, and NONE of them will answer 'Britain'.

Who are you to presume that anyone who doesn't wear a poppy, doesn't 'support our troops'? What does 'supporting' them actually mean anyway? I always put cash in poppy tins for the Legion, and also whenever there's a HfH collection - these guys need all the help going. I've plenty of good friends who are serving or ex-services, so they have my empathy, but I don't wear a poppy. I don't really understand why you need me to make a show of 'supporting' them. They're not a football team.

 

[TranmereGull]

Pipe down bushy. No-one appointed me 'arbiter'. Its a very clear statement of fact. The poppy isn't a 'symbol of Britain'. Ask 100 people in the street what the poppy symbolises, and NONE of them will answer 'Britain'.

Who are you to presume that anyone who doesn't wear a poppy, doesn't 'support our troops'? What does 'supporting' them actually mean anyway? I always put cash in poppy tins for the Legion, and also whenever there's a HfH collection - these guys need all the help going. I've plenty of good friends who are serving or ex-services, so they have my empathy, but I don't wear a poppy. I don't really understand why you need me to make a show of 'supporting' them. They're not a football team.

This. Whenever I did wear one the f***ing thing always got squashed by me putting my coat on and taking it off, or was hanging out of my suit lapel like a rather pathetic green plastic dowsing rod having lost its paper head somewhere on the tube.

I probably looked like I was mocking the fallen with my wilted, twisted effigy on display.

 

[ExmouthExile]

In my opinion, personal choice shouldn't come into it. When McClean pulls on the Sunderland shirt, he's representing Sunderland Football Club, that's what he's payed for. Now if Sunderland FC choose to mark Remembrance Day as a club by placing a poppy on the kit, then the players have to abide with that decision, or go and play elsewhere.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

In my opinion, personal choice shouldn't come into it. When McClean pulls on the Sunderland shirt, he's representing Sunderland Football Club, that's what he's payed for. Now if Sunderland FC choose to mark Remembrance Day as a club by placing a poppy on the kit, then the players have to abide with that decision, or go and play elsewhere.

I have some sympathy with this position actually. An individual player might be staunchly against gambling, or through religious reasons be anti-alcohol, but they wouldn't get to choose to have the club's sponsor removed from their shirt.

 

[Kumquat]

I think he is a pratt because he comes to ply his trade here and then insults much of the population, do I lose sleep no, do I care for his story, no.

He is a bigot, I have been to NI and its a good place to find one, quite frankly they can keep there spiteful little views to themselves.

If they wish to come and live and work here and lets face it he is very privileged, then just finding the good grace to accept an important symbol of his host nation, thats all.

Fair enough. I take the point about host nation etc, but I think we should have the empathy to understand that what is as you call it "an important symbol" is a symbol that is being used to represent the army across all wars including Ireland where the British Army did not exactly cover itself in glory in relation to Catholics. I think they have the right to say that that is what the poppy mostly represents therefore for their community.

I think the host nation argument is true, but I don't think it accounts for the behaviour of the British Army which has been for the most part excellent and courageous (and without which we would not have our freedom, in relation to WW2) but has also not been in the case of Catholics in NI (in my view).

Finally, there is a separate point about McClean. I know many people view him as a troublemaker, and as I've said before, he may well be. But this is a serious issue and whether he is doing it to be controversial or not, his stance is one that is echoed by many people in Northern Ireland. To put it simply, whether he's a prat or not, this isn't and shouldn't be just about him. It should be recognised that what he represented in his decision is a serious point that needs to be heard.

 

[Kumquat]

Who appointed you arbiter on this ? The poppy, unfortunate though it may be, has morphed into a clear divide between those who support our troops and dont mind showing it , and those who dont , despite all the mealy mouthed protests to the contrary.

And there are many in Northern Ireland whose memory of those troops s not WW2 but internment. Who appointed you the arbiter on this? It's not in the least bit clear.

 

[User removed 4]

I have some sympathy with this position actually. An individual player might be staunchly against gambling, or through religious reasons be anti-alcohol, but they wouldn't get to choose to have the club's sponsor removed from their shirt.

actually they do , there is a player in the premier league i'm sure who does this, as well as hashim ambla although thats south african cricket, dont agree with it there either.

 

[User removed 4]

Fair enough. I take the point about host nation etc, but I think we should have the empathy to understand that what is as you call it "an important symbol" is a symbol that is being used to represent the army across all wars including Ireland where the British Army did not exactly cover itself in glory in relation to Catholics. I think they have the right to say that that is what the poppy mostly represents therefore for their community.

I think the host nation argument is true, but I don't think it accounts for the behaviour of the British Army which has been for the most part excellent and courageous (and without which we would not have our freedom, in relation to WW2) but has also not been in the case of Catholics in NI (in my view). Finally, there is a separate point about McClean. I know many people view him as a troublemaker, and as I've said before, he may well be. But this is a serious issue and whether he is doing it to be controversial or not, his stance is one that is echoed by many people in Northern Ireland. To put it simply, whether he's a prat or not, this isn't and shouldn't be just about him. It should be recognised that what he represented in his decision is a serious point that needs to be heard.

exactly , your view , and it was gained from where exactly ??

Michael Willetts - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Kumquat]

exactly , your view , and it was gained from where exactly ??

Michael Willetts - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

From studying Northern Ireland history and politics for three years. Yours?

 

[User removed 4]

And there are many in Northern Ireland whose memory of those troops s not WW2 but internment. Who appointed you the arbiter on this? It's not in the least bit clear.

me , i appointed myself, i've been there and i've seen catholic priests walk past a dying soldier in the street without so much as a second glance, so please spare me the innocent , twinkle in their eyes , top o the morning irish stereotype , you should learn who the british army was sent in to PROTECT before you start spouting off.

 

[User removed 4]

From studying Northern Ireland history and politics for three years. Yours?

Doing two tours on the ground rather than studying theory in a classroom.

 

[Storer 68]

Personally I've always identified the poppy with the second world war. I do feel uncomfortable with its links to recent wars because I don't see them as just. This does not mean I don't respect the servicemen involved in those wars, and not least their families, who have to deal with the same emotions, whatever the war. However, I think people like McClean have every right to express their right not to wear the poppy if they feel that their memories of the British Army correlate with injustice. We cannot pretend that every war we thought has been just and so consequently there will be people whose memories of the British Army are less savoury. To me, that is what part of being a tolerant and civilised nation means. I, for one, have worn my poppy with pride in memory of the brave people who protected our freedom, but at the same time I respect those who don't want to celebrate the memory of men who for them mean pain and not pride.

The poppy has feck all to do with the second world war. It was the only flower that grew continually throughtout the Flanders campaigns ofthe First World War. Its symbolism was therefore meant to encapsulate that life overcomes the horror of war in all it guises, in all its locations be they belgium, france, germany, Russia, Japan, malaysia, Nigeria, The falklands, Northern Ireland. afghanistan Iraq etc etc etc

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Doing two tours on the ground rather than studying theory in a classroom.

Genuine question - do you think that gave you a balanced and rounded insight into both viewpoints?

 

[Kumquat]

Doing two tours on the ground rather than studying theory in a classroom.

Ah, doing two tours. With the British Army. In Northern Ireland. Now i'm sure you were an absolute saint, but if you're pretending they were all sweetness and light during the internment days then well, please spare me that naive bullshit. We all know who they were sent in to protect, but they didn't and their behaviour towards innocent catholics was the biggest free recruitment the IRA could ever have hoped for. But you know that deep down, don't you?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I think he is a pratt because he comes to ply his trade here and then insults much of the population, do I lose sleep no, do I care for his story, no.

He is a bigot, I have been to NI and its a good place to find one, quite frankly they can keep there spiteful little views to themselves.

If they wish to come and live and work here and lets face it he is very privileged, then just finding the good grace to accept an important symbol of his host nation, thats all.

The best bit of this post is when you suggest he is a bigot.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

The best bit of this post is when you suggest he is a bigot.

Quite.