Issues relating to the EU referendum

[melias shoes]

That doesn't tell me how many attacks there would have been had France not been in the EU!

I think somewhere we have got our wires crossed. Perhaps we're singing from the same song sheet?

 

[sir albion]

It suggests there wouldn't have been that one. It suggest Europe is more in danger of similar attacks due to the open border policy, than if the countries weren't in the EU.

No doubts about that and surely securing your own borders will make you much safer.

 

[Bold Seagull]

That doesn't tell me how many attacks there would have been had France not been in the EU!

That's because it makes no such suggestion. The criticism is of security agencies, not operating effectively. As we will find over coming months, people will jump at things and adopt / adapt them for their own needs.

 

[Bold Seagull]

No doubts about that and surely securing your own borders will make you much safer.

The EU will remain whether we are in or out, so the referendum result will make our borders no weaker or stronger than we can make them now in terms of security. Being out of the EU may mean we can control numbers of those wanting to stay, but travellers with a European passport will still be able to come and go exactly as they can now!

 

[pb21]

It suggests there wouldn't have been that one. It suggest Europe is more in danger of similar attacks due to the open border policy, than if the countries weren't in the EU.

If that one had been prevented by France not been in the EU another one worse may have occurred.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that there is so much unknown about both staying in and leaving that to describe one aspect, in this case staying in the EU is safer, as nonsensical based on the Paris attacks is in itself nonsense!

There are already numerous charlatans from both sides of the argument stating things as fact, or nonsense when it's not the case.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

QUITTING THE EU WOULD HELP NOT HINDER OUR SECURITY
22ND FEBRUARY 2016

Up to 5,000 terrorists trained by Islamic State are now back in Europe, with the right to come to Britain

Article published in The Times, 22 February 2016. © Richard Kemp

According to David Cameron and Theresa May, Britain is safer from terrorism inside the EU than out. The Islamic State terrorist attack that killed 130 people in Paris in November — the deadliest in Europe since 2004 — proves them wrong.

Not only was there a catastrophic failure in intelligence sharing between France and Belgium, but the terrorists were able to travel unchecked from Belgium into France precisely because both countries are members of the EU.

The single most important element in preventing attacks is intelligence. Intelligence must be protected and that is why sharing of significant and sensitive intelligence is bilateral between individual states. It is not done through the EU or any other collective mechanisms that would lead to compromise.

These critical bilateral relationships would persist regardless of being in or out of the EU. Our closest intelligence relationship by far is not with any EU member state but with the US.

Nor would Brexit undermine any other area of security co-operation between us and EU member states or central organisations. It is absurd to suggest that the EU would deliberately put its citizens, or ours, at greater risk by reducing co-operation.

Rob Wainwright, chief of Europol, the EU police agency, said last week that up to 5,000 terrorists trained by Islamic State in the Middle East are now back in Europe. This is certain to be a gross underestimate and anyway these numbers will grow. Many are experienced killers. While we remain in the EU these terrorists have the right to come freely into our country.

More than one million immigrants, mostly from the Middle East and Afghanistan, entered the EU in 2015 and at least 80,000 more arrived in the first month of this year. The vast majority will stay and gain the right to free movement throughout the EU. Most do not threaten our security but among them are many Islamist extremists who do.

None of this was envisaged when we joined the EU. By leaving we will again be able to determine who does and does not enter the UK. Failure to do so significantly increases the terrorist threat here, endangers our people and is a betrayal of this country.

http://richard-kemp.com/quitting-the-eu-would-help-not-hinder-our-security/#more-640

Who is Richard Kemp?

.......... the last five years of Richard’s military career were spent in Downing Street as head of the international terrorism team at the Joint Intelligence Committee, where he was responsible for producing assessments on the growing global terrorist problem for the Prime Minister and the Cabinet. In 2005, at the request of the US Ambassador to Iraq, he spent three months on a special intelligence assignment in Baghdad, Fallujah and Mosul.

Over this period he was also a member of Cobra, the government’s top-level crisis management committee. He Chaired the Cobra Intelligence Group, responsible for coordinating the work of the national intelligence agencies, including MI5 and MI6, during the July 2005 London bombings, the Madrid and Bali attacks and a number of high profile political kidnappings. He was appointed Commander of the Order of the British Empire for his work and, in the words of the Chief of Defence Intelligence, had “huge influence at the highest level of government.”

http://richard-kemp.com/about/

 

[5ways]

That is so naive it's ridiculous. If we were discussing something where pretty much everyone in the country was in agreement, you'd have a point, but we're discussing something where the country is completely split. Intelligent, educated, successful people on both sides with different views. If you find a collection of people that all share the same view on this, it means they are biased, not that they are correct. That applies whether that group is for the IN camp or OUT camp.

They don't need to be equal, but I would like see at least a few marks in the OUT tally. There are none. The website is completely biased.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

You are mistaken. They give opinion, and the opinion they give is always the same. .

If you are giving the truth, then what you give will always be the same.

The truth is known to have a liberal bias

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Apparently in the papers there is a list of companies that want to stay IN. I heard BT are on it, so please tell me how the hell does Brexit effect a company like BT? They probably make enough money to employ millions of extra people in this country, and secondly how they can be for staying in when a load of jobs where shifted to call centres outside of the EU, just wondering?

I think I heard a couple of supermarkets are on that list too, once again how does Brexit effect them?

There will be lots of companies who really would not be effected in any way by a Brexit but will just sign anyway to scaremonger people.

Why is everything revolving around what the city say in this argument? I find it hypocritical, one minute people are slagging off the banks, evil banks, next they are talking how important they are.

 

[pb21]

Apparently in the papers there is a list of companies that want to stay IN. I heard BT are on it, so please tell me how the hell does Brexit effect a company like BT? They probably make enough money to employ millions of extra people in this country, and secondly how they can be for staying in when a load of jobs where shifted to call centres outside of the EU, just wondering?

I think I heard a couple of supermarkets are on that list too, once again how does Brexit effect them?

There will be lots of companies who really would not be effected in any way by a Brexit but will just sign anyway to scaremonger people.

Why is everything revolving around what the city say in this argument? I find it hypocritical, one minute people are slagging off the banks, evil banks, next they are talking how important they are.

Vodafone too, they think it's a good idea to stay in the EU otherwise it will be bad for the UK economy, ironic no?

 

[jgmcdee]

Apparently in the papers there is a list of companies that want to stay IN. I heard BT are on it, so please tell me how the hell does Brexit effect a company like BT?

38% of their revenue in 2015 came from their global services arm[1].

They probably make enough money to employ millions of extra people in this country

Which has no relevance whatsoever, but from the same report their free cash flow was £2.8bn so they could only employ millions of people if they were happy being paid a couple of thousand pounds per year.

and secondly how they can be for staying in when a load of jobs where shifted to call centres outside of the EU, just wondering?

Because their staffing outside of the EU is irrelevant to how they believe Brexit would affect their business within.

[1] http://www.btplc.com/Sharesandperformance/Annualreportandreview/pdf/2015_BT_Annual_Report.pdf

 

[Chief Wiggum]

Guido Fawkes guide to the EU referendum

http://order-order.com/section/euro-guido/

 

[pastafarian]

Apparently in the papers there is a list of companies that want to stay IN.

not surprised to see vodafone are on the list

do they still have that Luxembourg based subsidiary or have they ditched that?

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Be nice to hear from small businesses instead of big business scaremongering people.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

not surprised to see vodafone are on the list

do they still have that Luxembourg based subsidiary or have they ditched that?

It's all a bit hypocritical in my book anyway.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...ith-transfer-to-luxembourg-haven-9504224.html

 

[cunning fergus]

Apparently in the papers there is a list of companies that want to stay IN. I heard BT are on it, so please tell me how the hell does Brexit effect a company like BT? They probably make enough money to employ millions of extra people in this country, and secondly how they can be for staying in when a load of jobs where shifted to call centres outside of the EU, just wondering?

I think I heard a couple of supermarkets are on that list too, once again how does Brexit effect them?

There will be lots of companies who really would not be effected in any way by a Brexit but will just sign anyway to scaremonger people.

Why is everything revolving around what the city say in this argument? I find it hypocritical, one minute people are slagging off the banks, evil banks, next they are talking how important they are.

Indeed, they tend to be the same people who would argue we should be in the EU so that the influence of global corparate interests and the worst excesses of capitalism can be limited.

And yet they are actually supporting the biggest cheerleader for the very same global corporations, which will ride roughshod over workers rights, envirnomental constraints and soverign nationalised concerns.

I am glad these bosses are coming out, its probably the first time they are really starting to shit themselves..............bring it on. The more they squeal the closer the peole must be to genuinely overthrowing their dominance.

Those who want to be persuaded by big business saying what is BEST for the electorate should be a) ashamed of themeselves or b) joining the Tory party.

 

[5ways]

http://video.ft.com/4764197296001/Quiz-What-has-the-EU-done-for-Britain-/world - kinda fun.