Issues relating to the EU referendum

[Deleted member 22389]

It says it all at the end of the day. Vote for a reformed EU is what they will telling everyone who is undecided. Seriously when will people wake up.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ikely-to-face-Luxembourg-court-challenge.html

That's where part of our £50 million pounds a day goes, to expensive law makers. Not only does your taxes pay for the child benefit, it also pays the law makers to scrap any deals Cameron makes.

 

[5ways]

Which means a grand total of nothing.

No. 10 is campaigning to stay IN, so of course they're going to say that there's no possibility of a second referendum. But it's widely expected that DC will have to resign if we vote OUT, so it won't be up to him anyway.

It's interesting that you are able to hold that position when the exact opposite has been stated by the Government at every opportunity. I wonder how many stars have to align for the perfect post-Brexit scenario to take place.

 

[5ways]

Right. Time for Mejona the DULLARD to pipe up.

I don't ENJOY politics. I'll never enter a "debtate" (a technical term for two people with differing views arguing when, ultimately, neither of them is going to change the others opinions, thus making the argument pointless in my view) but I will always use my vote and do as much research into the topic as possible to feel my vote is a true reflection of my views.

Where I'm struggling is, in an election I have a set of promises from each party to base a decision on. Now, I'm not stupid and I know people don't always fulfil said promises, but I MUST base my decision on those otherwise I'm just guessing.

In a referendum, I'm struggling to know the FACTS. What are the DEFINITIVES of either staying or going. All I seem to read is opinions so far. "we will be far better staying" vs "no, we're better off leaving".

So, in summary, I don't really understand it.

That's my main issue.....

Keep an eye on http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexitvote/ . Seems like sober, independent analysis.

 

[melias shoes]

I think the UK as a whole will end if we leave the EU. There will be a vastly complicated mess as Scotland gets home rule then Wales declares independence and the Northern Ireland succeeds to Ireland.

England will become less and less democratic and more and more right wing. I shall be getting an Irish passport and moving to France or Spain.

Oh and my job is based solely on European legislation.

Fear fear and more fear.

 

[5ways]

Tut tut

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/tu-quoque

At least we have a chance of removing one of these supposedly undemocratic institutions and the Parliament act reasserts the primacy of the elected chamber in the UK.

Pff no true democrat could possibly worry about Brussels when the House of Lords sits there unchallenged.

 

[Notters]

Fear fear and more fear.

Yes, exactly, I'm seriously worried, that's my point?!

I don't understand why "fear tactics" are frowned upon. If I didn't believe them then I wouldn't be worried and I wouldn't be posting on here and I wouldn't give a stuff about the referendum. I can only see negatives coming from leaving the EU.

 

[beorhthelm]

Sorry should have included a link. They were referencing No 10. 11:58.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...b0f2fd18cafe92#block-56caf44ce4b0f2fd18cafe92

"No 10 rules out second referendum after possible Brexit vote

The Number 10 lobby briefing is over. The prime minister’s spokeswoman used it to confirm that, if Britain votes to leave the EU, David Cameron will start the process that leads to Britain leaving the union. This involves invoking article 50 of the Lisbon treaty.

— Nicholas Watt (@nicholaswatt)
February 22, 2016
No 10 dismisses @odysseanproject call for 2nd #euref: PM will trigger article 50 exit clause in Lisbon Treaty after Leave vote 1/2

— Nicholas Watt (@nicholaswatt)
February 22, 2016
Earliest opportunity for PM to trigger article 50 is day after #EUref at scheduled @EUCouncil on 24 June"

right, so upon a vote to leave we invoke article 50 of Lisbon and if the EU come back with a shed load of concessions, treaty change, roll back of power transitions back to Maastricht, the PM will simply say "no, we're done". why is it that the In camp cant accept that in the process of negotiations for leaving (often cited as complex and reason to stay) that a possible outcome of that process could be a new arrangement, suspending the withdrawal while going back to the population with a new referendum?

 

[Triggaaar]

It's interesting that you are able to hold that position when the exact opposite has been stated by the Government at every opportunity.

No it isn't. Those who want us to stay in will say the opposite, because it suits their agenda, but not all members of the government want us to stay in.

 

[5ways]

No it isn't. Those who want us to stay in will say the opposite, because it suits their agenda, but not all members of the government want us to stay in.

At some point you can either take the PM, France, Belgium, the Chancellor and whoever else at their word or you can say "haha! I won't fall for your sly political tricks, I demand a better deal and I know what to do to get it!" Then we vote our and you say "So then, how about this new deal, I'm thinking a trade relationship, no free movement, maybe some information shar...guys? Guys? hello? Mr Junker? Donald? Angie? Salut? Ou est vous? Mes amis?"

 

[Triggaaar]

Keep an eye on http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexitvote/ . Seems like sober, independent analysis.

The LSE a pro remaining in the EU. How is it independent?

 

[Triggaaar]

At some point you can either take the PM, France, Belgium, the Chancellor and whoever else at their word or you can say "haha! I won't fall for your sly political tricks, I demand a better deal and I know what to do to get it!" Then we vote our and you say "So then, how about this new deal, I'm thinking a trade relationship, no free movement, maybe some information shar...guys? Guys? hello? Mr Junker? Donald? Angie? Salut? Ou est vous? Mes amis?"

Have you been drinking?

 

[5ways]

The LSE a pro remaining in the EU. How is it independent?

It has academic standards to maintain.

 

[Triggaaar]

It has academic standards to maintain.

And places to fill with foreign students.

And I don't dismiss what they say, I think it's an excellent university. But I'm not sure it's completely unbiased.

 

[5ways]

And places to fill with foreign students.

And I don't dismiss what they say, I think it's an excellent university. But I'm not sure it's completely unbiased.

No one is free from bias, and I'm sure LSE has an institutional slant, but I don't think that would lead them to suppress the positive impacts of Brexit or accentuate the negative impacts.

 

[Triggaaar]

No one is free from bias, and I'm sure LSE has an institutional slant, but I don't think that would lead them to suppress the positive impacts of Brexit or accentuate the negative impacts.

Maybe you're right, you've read more of their stuff than me. Could you post a link to one of their articles that's in favour if Brexit?

 

[5ways]

Maybe you're right, you've read more of their stuff than me. Could you post a link to one of their articles that's in favour if Brexit?

This one takes it seriously : http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexitvote/2016/02/15/what-are-the-uks-options-outside-the-european-union/

 

[beorhthelm]

It has academic standards to maintain.

which do not include being neutral or "independent" in a political matter. one expects them to base views on research, and back research with empirical data, but we know full well in the area of social sciences such data can be biased from how the data is collected. as the saying goes, ask 10 economist their views and you'll get 12 opinions.

 

[Triggaaar]

This one takes it seriously : http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexitvote/2016/02/15/what-are-the-uks-options-outside-the-european-union/

Oh come on 5ways, you can't be serious? I asked if you could post a link to one of their articles, just one, that supports Brexit, and every word of that article supports staying in the EU.

 

[pastafarian]

Pff no true democrat could possibly worry about Brussels when the House of Lords sits there unchallenged.

two wrongs dont make a right
its quite possible to not like the undemocratic nature of Brussels and at the same time not like the undemocratic nature of the House of Lords

at least we have the option of change on one of these institutions

 

[5ways]

Oh come on 5ways, you can't be serious? I asked if you could post a link to one of their articles, just one, that supports Brexit, and every word of that article supports staying in the EU.

They don't take an editorial position if that's what you're after. It's analysis - which is why it's a good neutral website. This analysis (skimmed) seems somewhat unimpressed with DC's negotiations: http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexitvote/2...erons-eu-migration-reforms-pass-legal-muster/