ISIS have apparently burned the Jordanian pilot alive

[symyjym]

this simply isnt true. there are many religions that are far more introspective and based on spiritual growth, rather than punitive laws and codes of behaviour enforced to the degree of the abrahamic ones we are more familiar with . most admittedly incorporate ritual and other commons aspects, that appear to be far more inate programmed behaviour to humans than we are smart enough to realise. but all religions are not based on the same format at all.

Disagree with your disagreement to my comment. You see the same manipulation format used in religion all over the place, with thousands of splinter groups, large or small, with mere mortals wanting to be the sheepdog of their very own flock.

It has historically been used for control, sexual desire and money as well as war. All they have to do is claim that God has spoken to them whilst knowing that a small percentage will be fooled by it and join them. I could, as a non believer, pretend that I believe in God to gain the trust in others, and I am sure there are thousands of non believers preaching the word of God only for their own gain. Though they wouldn't ever admit to it.

 

[pastafarian]

ISIS consider themselves to be muslims, but seemingly the vast majority of muslims don't identify with them or consider them to be true muslims.
Although ISIS are muslim, they are not representative of 1/4 of the worlds population, and we if we do primarily identify them as muslim it can only help their cause by disenfranchising the muslim youth and giving them somewhere to turn to at vulnerable times of their lives.
It is important that their ideology is tackled by moderate muslims with support from all.

How does that sound?

Nope

Isis are muslims,they consider themselves to be good muslims,the vast majority of muslims dont associate with them and consider them to be bad muslims.
Isis are not representative of a 1/4 of the worlds population and never have been,if you think disenfranchised muslim youths will not turn to ISIS if we simply dont call them muslims you are kind of missing the appeal ISIS has for these youngsters.
It is important that their ideology is tackled by moderate muslims with support from apache gunships and hellfire missiles

 

[Gully Forever]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CP9dg38cAI

 

[Buzzer]

Not sure i understand your point here Buzzer.

Never mind. I'm sure others did.

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

Nope

if you think disenfranchised muslim youths will not turn to ISIS if we simply dont call them muslims you are kind of missing the appeal ISIS has for these youngsters.

I'm not suggesting that, merely saying it is a contributing factor. If we set up a dialogue with 'us' and 'them' with 'them' being muslims, it only widens their potential recruits.

 

[Buzzer]

They are fighting their own state, to govern the lands, the clue is in their name.

The European zealots are going over to fight for Islam. It's the one thing they all have in common. The clue is in their name, in their ideals, in their founding members, in their flags, in the words that they speak and in whose name they carry out these actions: The Islamic State of Iraq and Syria.

 

[sir albion]

Isn't that exactly what the people who join IS have done?

Yes and more it seems are keen to murder in their own country i,e france etc
It's astonishing how the brainwashed can be even more brainwashed so easily and also boris was spot on about these muslim types who join Isis and being rejected by woman...Have you seen how ugly the White newbie muslims are who convert?

At the end of the day they all worship a pile of shite just to be diffrent from the rest and they have a vile ideology to spice it up.

 

[Buzzer]

The Democratic republic of Korea..They are not fighting for Islam...

I'm sorry, can you clarify - are you saying that despite everything that has happened that ISIS are only playing lip service to their brand of Islam?

Despite it's founder being a Muslim cleric, despite its leaders all being Muslim, despite all its followers being fanatical Muslims, despite the only thing they all have in common is their religion, despite the acts carried out in the name of Mohammed, despite their constant references to the Koran, despite their vow to bring their brand of Islam to the world, despite its name and all their imagery...despite all this you still won't have it that there might be a religious aspect to ISIS.

I do wonder what they have to do for you to acknowledge the Islam part of all this.

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

At the end of the day they all worship a pile of shite just to be diffrent from the rest and they have a vile ideology to spice it up.

Wow, a real expert of religion and middle east affairs, insightful wise and so so accurate...
They do it just to be different!

Well at least you gave me a chuckle!

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

I'm sorry, can you clarify - are you saying that despite everything that has happened that ISIS are only playing lip service to their brand of Islam?

Despite it's founder being a Muslim cleric, despite its leaders all being Muslim, despite all its followers being fanatical Muslims, despite the only thing they all have in common is their religion, despite the acts carried out in the name of Mohammed, despite their constant references to the Koran, despite their vow to bring their brand of Islam to the world, despite its name and all their imagery...despite all this you still won't have it that there might be a religious aspect to ISIS.

I do wonder what they have to do for you to acknowledge the Islam part of all this.

What's your point, that we should be blaming 'Islam'?
Or are you just arguing for the hell of it?

 

[Buzzer]

What's your point, that we should be blaming 'Islam'?
Or are you just arguing for the hell of it?

I hope I'm not being rude here but you seem to be struggling to keep up with a fair few of the posts on this thread with your constant refrain of not understanding and the calls for clarification. Rather than just going round in circles with people trying to explain their points in ever simpler terms, how about you start at the beginning of the thread and work your way through it in your own time. Hopefully things might be a little clearer.

 

[The Spanish]

Disagree with your disagreement to my comment. You see the same manipulation format used in religion all over the place, with thousands of splinter groups, large or small, with mere mortals wanting to be the sheepdog of their very own flock.

It has historically been used for control, sexual desire and money as well as war. All they have to do is claim that God has spoken to them whilst knowing that a small percentage will be fooled by it and join them. I could, as a non believer, pretend that I believe in God to gain the trust in others, and I am sure there are thousands of non believers preaching the word of God only for their own gain. Though they wouldn't ever admit to it.

Religion has also been used to encourage spiritual growth, to rationalise the world around us, and to promote harmony. The current mantra from certain circles of all religion is as bad as each other, is as idiotic as saying all politicians are in it for themselves. There is plenty of good in humanity, and many well intentioned people.

I find in our societ currently, that the all religion is stupid argument is often an attempt to deflect from or avoid directly criticising those who indulge in excesses, or are motivated by more sinister reasons.

 

[Buzzer]

ISIS is a political problem, not a religious one

So all those impressionable young men going to fight for ISIS are political revolutionaries. Definitely not religious zealots. No sirree.

And you say it's crucial for me to understand things?

 

[Bold Seagull]

Religion has also been used to encourage spiritual growth, to rationalise the world around us, and to promote harmony. The current mantra from certain circles of all religion is as bad as each other, is as idiotic as saying all politicians are in it for themselves. There is plenty of good in humanity, and many well intentioned people.

I find in our societ currently, that the all religion is stupid argument is often an attempt to deflect from or avoid directly criticising those who indulge in excesses, or are motivated by more sinister reasons.

Am I right in saying that you are effectively saying you can't blame Islam for the these terrorists acts? It certainly reads that way.

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

I hope I'm not being rude here but you seem to be struggling to keep up with a fair few of the posts on this thread with your constant refrain of not understanding and the calls for clarification. Rather than just going round in circles with people trying to explain their points in ever simpler terms, how about you start at the beginning of the thread and work your way through it in your own time. Hopefully things might be a little clearer.

Well you just seem to be arguing for the sake of it.

You've already turned your view around and said that ISIS aren't representative of muslims. So, now you're arguing against the fact they shouldn't be primarily called muslims. Which would indicate to some that they are representative of muslims.

I think you might be the confused one...
Please clarify?

 

[Crispy Ambulance]

We are the Islamic State in Iraq and Isis!

No you're not.

Yes we are. We've got the flags printed and everything.

I don't recognise that you're Muslim.

Are you an expert on Islamic Studies then?

No, but you're not like Mr Hussein who lives down the road.

And you're not like the Pope. So tell me about this Mr Hussein. Is he a Muslim cleric?

No but we've lots of clerics who condemn your actions.

So? We've lots of Muslim clerics who praise our actions. And we've got lots of converts from your country too. They're the ones shouting Allah Akbar in Brummie accents.

But we've got more

So? Does sheer number make it right then?

No but it means that you're not a typical Muslim.

So? We think we're right and they're wrong. And we aim to impose our will on them and you.

But you can't because we refuse to recognise you as a proper Muslim.

Good luck with that. How's that working out for you so far?

But it might work in the future.

What? By telling us we're not proper Muslims. You think we're bothered what people we refer as infidels think of our interpretation of Islam?

Quality!

 

[looney]

The Problem is Islam how ever much appeasers and apologists wish to make excuses.


A former editor of the Telegraph wrote that Islams biggest problem was that it was stopped/contained/militarily defeated. From that point on its followers then had to come to acommodation with non-beleivers because so much of it is down right toxic.

For example the idea that muslim men can "date" non muslim women but it is not reciprical is a recipe for trouble as are other strictures, that Islam should be eckowledged as the main religion by non-beleivers, a muslims word is worth more than a non-beleivers, a muslim cannot sell land to non beleivers. Good muslims should be more like mohammed who has a history of rape murder and piracy. And it goes on and on...

The second major(possibly fatal) problem for islam/ muslims is that back in medeival times going into a christian village and pulling the sort of stuff Isis do then a village 50 miles away would prob nor hear about it for years. In an age of mass comunication when an ISIS **** beheads someone minutes later the whole world knows.

This is not going to end well. being in denial about it isn't a solution as it wont just go away.

 

[Buzzer]

Well you just seem to be arguing for the sake of it.

You've already turned your view around and said that ISIS aren't representative of muslims. So, now you're arguing against the fact they shouldn't be primarily called muslims. Which would indicate to some that they are representative of muslims.

I think you might be the confused one...
Please clarify?

Eh? I never said ISIS were representative. I've already explicitly told you this when you asked me the same point previously in this very thread earlier today. I just said that they were Muslims. Extremist Muslims, I'll grant you but still very much Muslims. The last post of mine where I said they were just political revolutionaries was a debating technique called 'sarcasm'. It's used to emphasise a point and to suggest incredulity. I'm sorry it confused you.

Your last point about arguing against not being called muslims indicating that they are representative of muslims makes no sense at all. Seriously, start at the beginning again and hopefully it might start making sense to you.

 

[symyjym]

Religion has also been used to encourage spiritual growth, to rationalise the world around us, and to promote harmony. The current mantra from certain circles of all religion is as bad as each other, is as idiotic as saying all politicians are in it for themselves. There is plenty of good in humanity, and many well intentioned people.

I find in our societ currently, that the all religion is stupid argument is often an attempt to deflect from or avoid directly criticising those who indulge in excesses, or are motivated by more sinister reasons.

If I were a believer I would completely agree with you

We are responsible for our own spiritual growth. Great thinkers were murdered for thinking outside the box due to ignorance and closed minds. A world without science would be truly depressing.

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

This is not going to end well. being in denial about it isn't a solution as it wont just go away.

I agree it won't go away, i don't see anyone in denial about the problem though.
Some on here seem to ignorantly think that it's just a muslim issue, which can only make things worse, here and over there. As a good solution can not be gained through ignorance.