[News] Is your life worth more than a 2 year suspended prison sentence?

[mikeyjh]

59 in a 40 is absurd. Im probably alone in wondering why this isnt deemed like manslaughter. The mans lost control of a vehicle breaching restrictions to put in place to prevent accidents. Yes people break speed limits, but 50% over isnt likely to be done by accident, and clearly the consequences, IMO arent enough to prevent people from doing it. Yes modern cars can handle it, then trained personnel can handle a gun, but in the wrong hands then it becomes lethal and the driver clearly isnt lewis flipping hamilton.

Not only is 59 in a 40 absurd, he was also on a corner in the wet, it does sound pretty awful driving. That said, I don't think the sentence is completely unfair - I have a problem with a lack of punishment for dangerous driving that doesn't result in an accident. I see it, literally, every day - Punish these people with lengthy bans and you'll knock it on the head.

Coincidentally, a friend of mine was airlifted (that's actually relatively normal round here) to hospital on Sunday, after being knocked off her bike by a car - Driver trying to get past where he shouldn't, realised there was oncoming traffic, braked, was hit by the car behind who also to pass and the rest was history, ridiculous driving.

 

[Worried Man Blues]

Lifetime driving bans I agree with, but there must be better solutions than locking people up for causing accidents, avoidable or otherwise.

'Ran out of talent' is a phrase often used racing cars, people don't crash on purpose, but not everyone grasps the capabilities of their steed or their ability. Having money to acquire fast cars is not a talent/skill

Some people drive fast for the fun of it, oops i've crashed.

 

[Hamilton]

As a cyclist you live with dangerous driving all the time. The number of cars that do not overtake, and who overtake to close at excessive speed, is far too high.

Those same drivers are a risk to all other road users.

Personally, I'd make it a condition for anyone passing their driving test that they also go out and pass a cycling proficiency test. A week on two wheels on the UK roads might just change some behaviours.

This man has caused a tragic accident but the chances are that for many people, 'there but for the grace of God go them.'

Here's a slightly longer report on the incident...
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/ex-raf-pilot-avoids-jail-18879187

 

[wellquickwoody]

Driving like a wanker should be punished with very heavy penalties, being involved in accident should be treated as such. The modern take is that accidents do not happen, there is always a guilty party. This sounds like somewhere between the two.

 

[Worried Man Blues]

The lifetime ban is reasonable, but not sure about 10 years. Imagine your son drives too fast and those unfortunate events unfold.

People do stupid things and accidents do happen, and adding a 10 year prison sentence to gross speeding charges is simply not going to change that.

Oh i've done something stupid and someone has died. It will give him time to reflect and make it safer for the rest of the community.

 

[maffew]

...in an innocent person's what?

You seem to have stopped.

Are you still collecting your thoughts?

Is that one of them there on the ground? I think it just fell out of you ear.

Life is full on if's. It's why there is a great big one in the centre of it.

Ifs.
Not if's

 

[jakarta]

I’d be more interested to know how all the drivers who ignore the 50mph camera covered average speed check stretches on the motorways where there are roadworks get away with it. Do they know something the rest of us don’t?

Have often found this when driving on the M23, I just dial my Cruise Control to 48-49MPH and relax while all manner of herberts shoot past me.

Maybe they are all stolen and will be getting dumped shortly?

 

[BNthree]

The sentencing guidelines for people that cause death by driving recklessly are a joke. They are decades out of date and need a serious overhaul. If the actions you choose you to take (speeding excessively in the wet on a bend) lead to a death then you need to be punished for those actions. It’s not an accident, it’s a direct result of the choices they made.

 

[FatSuperman]

Difficult one this Stat. On the one hand, he has killed someone because he was driving too fast for the conditions, 50% above the speed limit, and beyond his ability. But it was an accident. Is it manslaughter? If this were a teenager in a 1.2 Renault Clio Dynamique, would the sentence be any different?

I instinctively hate the guy cos he’s done this in a sports car, so I’m making a load of assumptions right away. But we have to look past that.

If we want safer roads, we need to start having much tougher measures for speeding and other driving related offences. Someone above mentions how easy it is to do. We can easily make it mandatory that all new cars alert you when you breach the speed limit. Long-term this will remove the excuse that “I didn’t realise”.

If we want safer roads for cyclists, we need to took at the infrastructure, and sadly the government would much rather talk about this sort of thing than actually DO anything. I won’t ride my bike on the road anymore, far too dangerous.

 

[Gabbafella]

I work for a motorcycle company, and most people there ride bikes, and extremely badly at that.
They pull wheelies down the road because they think it's cool, weaving in and out of traffic, hard acceleration and excessive speed is the norm. One guy has been told if he keeps riding the way he does, he will lose his job. I've spoken to these morons and explained that the way they ride will one day cause a huge accident and it is always met with a vile smugness and the false belief that they're all Valentino Rossi on the road.
The problem is, they don't put two and two together and look at what a devastating effect their dangerous riding could potentially have. One guy has had two serious accidents, both his legs have been rebuilt with metal rods/pins etc, yet because he walked away it's funny to him. He jokes about dying young and also jokes about killing someone with his riding.
Maybe it's an age thing, maybe as you grow older you start to have a healthier appreciation for not only your life, but for those around you too. I'm late to the driving game, I'm almost 43 and will only start learning the beginning of next year, and to be honest, I'm really nervous about sharing the roads with these twats who think it's a race track out there.
Is my life worth than 2 years? I'd like to think so and I'm sure my loved ones would agree. I'm fully aware that accidents can and will happen, but when you're the major contributing factor to any accident than you should absolutely be held accountable.

 

[dangull]

Tragic as this is, is it a lot worse than the countless drivers who slow down a lot as they approach a speed camera, then immediately speed up again when they go past it. I admit i have done this before when it seems like it was a safe road.

 

[happypig]

The sentencing guidelines for people that cause death by driving recklessly are a joke. They are decades out of date and need a serious overhaul. If the actions you choose you to take (speeding excessively in the wet on a bend) lead to a death then you need to be punished for those actions. It’s not an accident, it’s a direct result of the choices they made.

The guidelines were last revised in 2008, hardly "decades". Why are they a joke ?

 

[Stat Brother]

I see today that a woman was given a 2 year suspended sentence for stealing and immediately transferring £31k to friends and family when £90k was refunded to her account in error by a charity shop instead of £9. Must admit I thought stealing £30k deserved a custodial sentence. Wonder if Stat Brother would have questioned the sentence had it been a pedestrian killed rather than a cyclist. Cyclists Lives Matter and all that.

That's rediculous of course I would but the story wouldn't have appeared in my cycling heavy Twitter feed.

I also wouldn't have made a point of it if the fella was traveling at the speed limit, a limit designed to keep everyone as safe a possible.

I wouldn't be making the point if any form of custodial punishment was handed down.

 

[Stat Brother]

I dont know, speeding is almost not deemed a crime isnt it in peoples eyes. 3 points and a fine is what people think. Like taking a library book back late.

We see shootings in America all the time, though the death penalty isnt executed or should be. But yeah the consequences clearly arent enough to prevent people from doing it

Just collate all the "I've got a ticket, how do I get out of it?" threads.

It just feels like this fella has said to his lawyer 'Ive killed someone, how do I get out of it'?

We can see what answer he got.

 

[Stat Brother]

Ah, but we're conflating issues here aren't we.

Arguably, our lives are worth much more than two years and equally not worth anything.

For example, say he had been doing 40 miles an hour and spun out of control, hit the tree and killed the cyclist. He is now within the speed limit and it is all just a tragic accident.

But, he was speeding and therefore contributing more towards the accident. However, his intent was never to kill but to speed and he hit the tree first, not the cyclist. This sounds callous but another 10 metres down the road and there would have been no tree to rebound from and no death.

So, ultimately the offence is for speeding only followed by accidental death. All wrong in anyone's head I'm sure but I'm guessing that's the law.

Add to this the question of why he was speeding? Was there a reason that a jury could understand? I'm sure this man is a habitual speeder but what if he was in the process of slowing as he moved from a sixty mile an hour area to a 40 mile an hour area?

The question really is this - do you think the laws of the land best reflect what all life is worth?

If he was traveling at 40mph he would have been further back down the road.
If he was traveling at 40mph he wouldn't have rebounded off the tree as far.
If he was traveling at 40mph he would have had time to assess the road lay out and condition.
If he was traveling at 40mph his car would have sustained much less damage (for those that care).

Basically if he was traveling at 40mph everyone would have lived another day.

 

[Diablo]

Manslaughter in my book. Sentence was a joke, but not to the person’s family. Our justice system is not a justice system.

Fortunately you are not Judge or Jury . He didn`t mean to kill. The car drivers only crime was speeding.

 

[happypig]

If he was traveling at 40mph he would have been further back down the road.
If he was traveling at 40mph he wouldn't have rebounded off the tree as far.
If he was traveling at 40mph he would have had time to assess the road lay out and condition.
If he was traveling at 40mph his car would have sustained much less damage (for those that care).

Basically if he was traveling at 40mph everyone would have lived another day.

If he'd been going faster the cyclist wouldn't have been there yet.

That's rediculous of course I would but the story wouldn't have appeared in my cycling heavy Twitter feed.

I also wouldn't have made a point of it if the fella was traveling at the speed limit, a limit designed to keep everyone as safe a possible.

I wouldn't be making the point if any form of custodial punishment was handed down.

It was a custodial sentence, but suspended. If he commits a similar offence during the suspension period the sentence can be activated. The judge has taken the view that 250 hours unpaid work is better than sticking him inside for three months (he would be released on license after serving half).
It's never easy sentencing emotive cases but, in the majority of cases they tend to get it right.

 

[Diablo]

If he was traveling at 40mph he would have been further back down the road.
If he was traveling at 40mph he wouldn't have rebounded off the tree as far.
If he was traveling at 40mph he would have had time to assess the road lay out and condition.
If he was traveling at 40mph his car would have sustained much less damage (for those that care).

Basically if he was traveling at 40mph everyone would have lived another day.

If a car was travelling at 40mph and lost control whether it be cyclist or pedestrian hit there would probably be deaths.

 

[Hamilton]

If he was traveling at 40mph he would have been further back down the road.
If he was traveling at 40mph he wouldn't have rebounded off the tree as far.
If he was traveling at 40mph he would have had time to assess the road lay out and condition.
If he was traveling at 40mph his car would have sustained much less damage (for those that care).

Basically if he was traveling at 40mph everyone would have lived another day.

If he goes to prison what is the impact on his 15-year-old son was a question the judge asked.

 

[Uter]

The car drivers only crime was speeding.

Which led to loss of life. The use of "only" makes it sound like a trivial misdemeanour.