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[News] Is your life worth more than a 2 year suspended prison sentence?

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LamieRobertson

Not awoke
Feb 3, 2008
43,071
SHOREHAM BY SEA
I see today that a woman was given a 2 year suspended sentence for stealing and immediately transferring £31k to friends and family when £90k was refunded to her account in error by a charity shop instead of £9. Must admit I thought stealing £30k deserved a custodial sentence. Wonder if Stat Brother would have questioned the sentence had it been a pedestrian killed rather than a cyclist. Cyclists Lives Matter and all that.

Was thinking the same
 

Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
Oct 8, 2003
40,601
Faversham
I am not sure about this. Obviously it is a dreadful thing to happen, and above all, I felt so terrible for the poor cyclist and his family when reading this.. But accidents do happen and you have to wonder how culpable this driver actually was,
Firstly, he was doing 59 in a 40. That is way too high, but I see that happen daily and in modern cars with an engine size of anything over 1.6, it is very easy to do if you switch off for any time. So IMO, that alone isn't enough to demand a long custodial sentence. Secondly, it seems what caused the death of the cyclist was incredibly bad luck as the car hit a tree and rebounded across the road into him. He hasn't been run over.

I don't know, just playing devil's advocate a bit. If that cyclist had been a relative of mine, I'd probably think differently.

When I went on an advanced driving course in lieu of 3 points for totalling my car after it aquaplaned on the M6 I was told there is no such thing as an accident. It is always someone's fault (unless 'act of God' - hit by meteorite, etc).

This guy was speeding so it was his fault.

If some **** bounced his car off a tree at 50% over the speeding limit, ignoring wet road conditions, and wiped out one of my family, I'd want his bollocks on a dish.

In related news I suspect those 3 chavs who dragged a policeman to his death behind their stolen car got 'lenient' sentences because they were driving and if you're driving it is always 'accidental'. Meanwhile, hold up a bank with a fake gun and you're looking at 25 years.

It isn't right. I'm with [MENTION=435]Stat Brother[/MENTION] on this.
 

Wardy's twin

Members
Oct 21, 2014
7,300
If i fired a gun into an area where there might be people and it hit one by accident e.g. I didn't specifically aim it at someone i would be done for manslaughter as a minimum. Taking a ton weight of metal down a road where there might be people at an unsafe speed is no different.

Pretty sure that there is some laws of physics which would say that driving at 50% higher speed increases the force (and killing power) by a much larger percentage.
 

Stat Brother

Members
Jul 11, 2003
69,452
West west west Sussex
If he goes to prison what is the impact on his 15-year-old son was a question the judge asked.
Is the judge suggesting prison if the man who caused this death didn't have a son?




Oh and in the interests of fully disclosure.

3 points, speeding, from right back in the day. (But old enough to know better)
Speed awareness course, within the last 5-10 years.
'Pay attention you tw#t' course, also within the same time frame.

I found the Awareness course to be excellent and it really changed my approach to driving.
That's the sort of thing that should be mandatory every 10-20 years
 

LamieRobertson

Not awoke
Feb 3, 2008
43,071
SHOREHAM BY SEA
What, what were you thinking?

That if someone took a life as a direct result of their illegal actions and avoided prison, I wouldn't be appalled if it was a pedestrian?

To be totally honest I’m not sure if you would have posted about it ..maybe I am wrong ..you have an admirable passion for cycling so I guess you’d be more inclined to look for articles that relate to it
 


jessiejames

Never late in a V8
Jan 20, 2009
2,357
Brighton, United Kingdom
Is the judge suggesting prison if the man who caused this death didn't have a son?




Oh and in the interests of fully disclosure.

3 points, speeding, from right back in the day. (But old enough to know better)
Speed awareness course, within the last 5-10 years.
'Pay attention you tw#t' course, also within the same time frame.

I found the Awareness course to be excellent and it really changed my approach to driving.
That's the sort of thing that should be mandatory every 10-20 years

I agree with the course, part of passing your test including motorway awareness, then make it every 5 years, and scrap the hazard perception test as that is useless.
 

CaptainDaveUK

Members
Oct 18, 2010
1,248
Surely this is dangerous driving, if he has lost control to the point of bouncing off a tree. You can’t lose control of a vehicle then claim it was an accident when you are driving 50% over the speed limit in wet conditions. That’s like doing 105mph on a motorway in the rain, which is obviously showing a total disregard for other road users. It is dangerous and wreckless and in this case with tragic consequences.
 

Weststander

Members
Aug 25, 2011
53,908
Withdean area
I have an impatient personality and have very often driven a few mph over limits on motorways and other non-residential roads. Completely my fault. Whilst always trying to take care in all my driving for cyclists, bikers, etc.

I got caught doing 33 on the OSR and as a result last month completed a speed awareness course via Zoom. I knew much of the content from family who’d done these courses eg use of gears in modern cars.

The guy running it at the end asked us what we would take away. Many of us said braking distances eg 30 mph you stop in 23m, 40mph in 36m. Moreover, a pedestrian/cyclist hit at 40mph has a high chance of being a fatality, at 30mph it’s low odds.

The guy also chatted about special courses he runs for drivers who’ve killed others through dangerous, careless or drink/drug driving. An eye opener, so many lives altered and destroyed by every instance.

I’ve used it as a seminal moment for me, I’ve stopped speeding. I truly hope I keep it up. Arriving at a destination a couple of minutes earlier is not worth it. Or not at all!
 

Hampster Gull

Members
Dec 22, 2010
13,462
Taking the initial comments at face value, he didn’t intend to kill anyone but his reckless driving caused a death. In addition to the suspended jail sentence I think there is a reasonable argument to say his licence should be removed permanently and he should never drive again.
 
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Music City Gull

Not Changing This, Bozza
Jun 28, 2020
181
12 South
There probably needs to be a cultural change rather than law changes alone.

The gun laws in the US aren't notably different from those in Canada or Belgium, but the right to bare arms has turned into an expectation and that is the problem they have that other western countries don't to the same extent.

Similarly, there ought to be a proper campaign here to turn people against speeding, far more than a few wishy washy government posters and very occasional public service adverts. Anecdotally, as ATFC says above, there are just too many people who talk of speeding as if it doesn't matter.
Y’all don’t have this right?
the_right_to_bare_arms_2nd_amendment_sleeveless_shirt-r9f1c7c4bc7d74167a70cbeef86a11816_k21hd_70.jpg
 

Stat Brother

Members
Jul 11, 2003
69,452
West west west Sussex
Sorry I know this offends some of you, I promise I will try and cheer some of you up soon by finding a dead pedestrian, but in the meantime:-

Dr Suzanna Bull: Lorry company to be closed after cyclist's death
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-54029112

Driver jailed (21 months) a form of justice appears to have been served, so I wouldn't be bringing this up, were it not for this


His trial heard he had a tray table on his dashboard and the clutter had obstructed his view.

_110036889_mediaitem110036888.jpg

Oh my fudging days, what chance does any of us have?
 

Weststander

Members
Aug 25, 2011
53,908
Withdean area
I’d be more interested to know how all the drivers who ignore the 50mph camera covered average speed check stretches on the motorways where there are roadworks get away with it. Do they know something the rest of us don’t?

From media articles, they caught literally 10,000’s. For example when the A23 was widened and straightened at Bolney, more recently the M23 smart motorway works at Gatwick. There was a driver on my speed awareness course caught by that.

Those ploughing through at 65mph are either thick or on false plates.
 


jessiejames

Never late in a V8
Jan 20, 2009
2,357
Brighton, United Kingdom
From media articles, they caught literally 10,000’s. For example when the A23 was widened and straightened at Bolney, more recently the M23 smart motorway works at Gatwick. There was a driver on my speed awareness course caught by that.

Those ploughing through at 65mph are either thick or on false plates.

What makes me laugh is when they go past at 60 odd MPH, then just before the camera slow down, once last they speed up. Seen that so many times.
 

jessiejames

Never late in a V8
Jan 20, 2009
2,357
Brighton, United Kingdom
Sorry I know this offends some of you, I promise I will try and cheer some of you up soon by finding a dead pedestrian, but in the meantime:-

Dr Suzanna Bull: Lorry company to be closed after cyclist's death
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-54029112

Driver jailed (21 months) a form of justice appears to have been served, so I wouldn't be bringing this up, were it not for this


His trial heard he had a tray table on his dashboard and the clutter had obstructed his view.

View attachment 128053

Oh my fudging days, what chance does any of us have?

Been driving HGV for 30 years, never heard of dashboard table. That company did have other issues over the last few years with legal compliance. I understand that the O Licence had restrictions on it from a few years ago.
 

Music City Gull

Not Changing This, Bozza
Jun 28, 2020
181
12 South
59 in a 40 is absurd. Im probably alone in wondering why this isnt deemed like manslaughter. The mans lost control of a vehicle breaching restrictions to put in place to prevent accidents. Yes people break speed limits, but 50% over isnt likely to be done by accident, and clearly the consequences, IMO arent enough to prevent people from doing it. Yes modern cars can handle it, then trained personnel can handle a gun, but in the wrong hands then it becomes lethal and the driver clearly isnt lewis flipping hamilton.

Don’t read into my response is a disagreement to your comment. Just out of curiosity I looked up the definition of manslaughter in your country (from Wikipedia) “ Under English law, according to R v Creamer, a person is guilty of involuntary manslaughter when he or she intends an unlawful act that is likely to do harm to the person, and death results which was neither foreseen nor intended. The name for this crime is 'manslaughter by an unlawful and dangerous act' (MUDA).”

My best guess is his action of speeding isn’t likely to cause death as so many people speed and don’t kill people. Again, not defending just guessing.
 

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