Is this the end for the Conservative Party?

[Pavilionaire]

Last night's Hartlepool result has to be one of their worst in history, beaten into 4th place by UKIP.

Clearly, this is just one in a long line of things that have been going wrong since Major was defeated at the election in 1997.

Can they come back? Does anyone here vote Tory? Could you ever conceivably see yourself voting Tory, if they got their act together?

 

[lincs seagull]

until they get a leader who really does not potray him self as a complete twat or sleazy bag they have no hope.

they are in danger of becoming the third party as the liberals are looking over there shoulders at the moment

 

[Simster]

No it isn't the end for the Tories. At least I hope not.

 

[Set of Tracksuits]

This isn't the end of the Conservative Party at all. People said that about the Labour Party in the eighties when they were hopelessly divided and lost election after election.

The Tories will bounce back.

 

[Mr C]

Last night's Hartlepool result has to be one of their worst in history, beaten into 4th place by UKIP.

Clearly, this is just one in a long line of things that have been going wrong since Major was defeated at the election in 1997.

Can they come back? Does anyone here vote Tory? Could you ever conceivably see yourself voting Tory, if they got their act together?

In answer to your three questions... yes, yes, and yes.

Have faith. Our rightful government will be restored soon enough

 

[Biscuit]

If they had good politics, and didn't resort to cheap shots at the PM then it would certainly help!

I wouldnt ever consider voting tory..not unless they do something pretty drastically.

 

[Bluejuice]

They have a long way to go before they get anywhere near being a serious opposition to the big red Labour machine, which is worrying only because the government is allowed to get away with more and more as there is no viable alternative snapping at their heels.
I'd still never vote that way though and welcome the prospect of the Lib Dems becoming our second party. Their stand on council tax makes a lot of sense for one.

 

[Simster]

If they had good politics, and didn't resort to cheap shots at the PM then it would certainly help!

But not as much as finding a leader who the public wouldn't feel embarrassed by if they ran the country.

Labour could put 4 leaders up - all more electable than Michael Howard.

 

[Pavilionaire]

As regards being in the political wilderness, the difference between Labour in the 80s and the Tories now is the political spectrum.

Labour in the 80s was unelectable and, by today's standards, extremely left wing. Thatcher, by comparison, was right of centre. Labour, therefore, had the opportunity to move towards the centre and broaden their appeal.

Today it is difficult to see what room the Tories have for manoeuvre.

 

[Set of Tracksuits]

But not as much as finding a leader who the public wouldn't feel embarrassed by if they ran the country.

Labour could put 4 leaders up - all more electable than Michael Howard.

Simster - do you see any candidates on the horizon?

Liam Fox?
Oliver Letwin?
Boris Johnson? (Oh please!)
John Redwood?

 

[Pavilionaire]

To answer my question, I can't see the Tories returning to power until the Europe question has been resolved.

I would expect us to join the single currency (eventually) and be committed to this broader Europe. It will get messy and I expect the Tories to elect a candidate who, while being committed to staying in, will present a platform of reform of the EU and getting tough with the Brussels bureaucrats.

The sad thing about the Tories is their lack of innovative, dynamic policies, and their lack of leadership material.

With UKIP and the Lib Dems gaining in strength I could see this forthcoming election being as bad as the last two.

 

[Set of Tracksuits]

Today it is difficult to see what room the Tories have for manoeuvre.

That is a very good point. In very simplistic terms, the Tories can't move to the left without alienating their core support and can't move to the right without becoming too Thatcherite again.

I think that their best option will be to stick to the policies they know best, that are recognisable as "traditional" Tory values in the public eye, such as being strong on law and order, anti-taxation and supportive of small business.

They need to get this image fixed in the mind of the electorate, at the moment I don't think the average "man in the street" could describe more than one or two Conservative policies.

 

[Biscuit]

The only thing that worries me is this country not having a decent 'opposition'.

We do need a party to keep tbs on labour and put pressure on them.

We simply do not have one.

 

[lincs seagull]

I can't see the tories making any progress the UKIP will take votes off them but will not get seats as it is no porportional rep votes like europe.

and the lib dems will take votes from both camps as the old could never vote tory or labour for disillusioned members of each party comes in this time. the Liberals will do very well this time i really can see tham being the major oppersition to labour.

 

[On the Left Wing]

Jeffrey Archer
Jonathan Aitken
Neil Hamilton
Michael Howard


Q What two things do these four people have in common?

A They are all current or former Tory MPs and are all criminals.


Q Who is the odd one out?

A Michael Howard - because he has yet to do time for his crimes of accepting a £1million bung from Tiny Rowland, while he was a Tory minister, to open an inquiry into Al Fayed and Harrods!


The Tories rot in sleeze, corruption and crime ... IMHO

 

[Pavilionaire]

Geoffrey Robinson
Peter Mandelson
Ron Davies
Robin Cook.

When it comes to sleaze and corruption Labour mix it with the best of them.

More to do with being corrupted by power than individual parties IMHO.

 

[Lammy]

I see the Tories as a protest vote against Labour. I'd love to vote Lib Dem but that would mean voting for Baker. Unfortunately I will be forced to vote Tory in order to get that twat out!

 

[West Hoathly Seagull]

They lost it on Black Wednesday, when the Pound had to come out of the European Monetary System, which they had joined not to prepare us for the Single Currency, but to get inflation down, damaging the economy in the process. That wrecked their claims to be the best party to run the economy. They have been behind in the polls since then, except for the fuel protest time. What makes it worse is that the party members are mostly of the hunting, ex-military sort. This makes any attempt to force them to come up to date impossible. They could have elected a leader who could have got them back to power twice, but would not do so. They rejected Ken Clarke in 1997 and Michael Portillo in 2001. Yes, I hear you laugh at Michael Portillo, but I have met him and I think his Thatcherite period was because he was trying to get on. In reality, he was always a moderniser, given the chance. I remember them interviewing a group of Tory Party members in Lingfield when William Hague resigned. They were very concerned that someone who had been gay in the past would be elected as their leader. That says it all

 

[Simster]

They lost it on Black Wednesday, when the Pound had to come out of the European Monetary System, which they had joined not to prepare us for the Single Currency, but to get inflation down, damaging the economy in the process. That wrecked their claims to be the best party to run the economy. They have been behind in the polls since then, except for the fuel protest time. What makes it worse is that the party members are mostly of the hunting, ex-military sort. This makes any attempt to force them to come up to date impossible. They could have elected a leader who could have got them back to power twice, but would not do so. They rejected Ken Clarke in 1997 and Michael Portillo in 2001. Yes, I hear you laugh at Michael Portillo, but I have met him and I think his Thatcherite period was because he was trying to get on. In reality, he was always a moderniser, given the chance. I remember them interviewing a group of Tory Party members in Lingfield when William Hague resigned. They were very concerned that someone who had been gay in the past would be elected as their leader. That says it all

What you said.

 

[Hatterlovesbrighton]

The tories are in the best shape they have been since just after the election in 92. But that doesn't really say much. Major just about held together a bunch to beat a very poor Labour party. Thank goodness it did. Kenneth Clarke got this country back on its feet ( i dread to think what Kinnock would have done to this country), but there was nothing he or Major could do to stop Blair winning in 1997. He was a slick loveable character that every Mum wanted to feed and love. Just look at the scenes on the 2nd Maym 1997.

Nowadays though the conservatives are fighting battles on both sides of their party and against 3 highly skilled parties. It is clear that Labour hold the centre ground that is essential to winning any general election. Since Howard came to power they have at least been battling to attempt to take this centre ground but just when they might have been suceeding UKIP pop up and steal half their vote on the single issue of the EU.

It's make or break time for Howard really. Does he shift to the right and take back those that have gone to UKIP or does he keep on fighting for the centre ground and hope that the threat from UKIP drops away at a general election where all the issues will be on the board, not just Europe.

I regard myself as a naturally conservative voter but wouldn't go anywhere near them if they went further to the right.