Dont really follow cricket that much, but with Muralitharans history as a suspected "chucker" will people accepted his record?
Is Muralitharan Crickets Barry Bonds?
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Moshe Gariani
Well-known member
- Mar 10, 2005
- 12,379
yes, people will accept his record....
chucking is allowed now and will be more so in the future
chucking is allowed now and will be more so in the future
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His bowling action has been cleared time and time again over the years. It would be nice if people could just accept that he is one of the finest spin bowlers the game has ever seen, who fully deserves his record, rather than trotting out the usual bollocks about him throwing the ball.
Moshe Gariani
Well-known member
- Mar 10, 2005
- 12,379
but as Kerry O'Keefe once said, "If Boy George went for testing at the University of Western Australia they'd say he was straight...!"
larus
Well-known member
Yes, but only after they have altered the definition of throwing and the degree of bend allowed in the arm.
I sincerely hope that the rules on throwing get tightened up to how it used to be. The problem is that the power for cricket now lies in the sub-continent, and they aren't as concerned for the heritage of the game (i.e. cheating umpires Shaka Rana sp?). I believe that the authorities have tried to help SL to be a more competitive country as they are a relative new comer to the international scene, and Murali was seen as being instrumental in this, therefore they couldn't allow him to be banned for chucking.
sten_super
Brain Surgeon
I know that this is going to open up a can of worms, but I'll say it nonetheless...
Muralitharan is a good bowler. What makes him great is his physical deformity; the elbow that can't straighten, allied with the fact that his wrist is double jointed, mean that he can turn the ball either way and it is ridiculously difficult to pick it.
For my money, Warne is/was the more talented bowler. The manner in which he toys with batsmen is fantastic.
Muralitharan is a good bowler. What makes him great is his physical deformity; the elbow that can't straighten, allied with the fact that his wrist is double jointed, mean that he can turn the ball either way and it is ridiculously difficult to pick it.
For my money, Warne is/was the more talented bowler. The manner in which he toys with batsmen is fantastic.
Uncle Buck
Ghost Writer
- Jul 7, 2003
- 28,077
Yes he is a good bowler, but the ICC did change the rules so the arm could bend up to 15 degrees, opposed to 5 degrees to accomodate him.
No, he was first cleared in 1996, again in 1999 and finally again in 2004. The laws of the game were later amended in 2004 when it was found that 99% of bowler throw the ball to some extent during delivery. The 2004 study on Murali, that eventually led to the change in law, related solely to the legality of the doosra and not his normal action.
Uncle Buck
Ghost Writer
- Jul 7, 2003
- 28,077
As the 12th Man pointed out;
" Muttiah Muralitharan will not be playing today, as he has been up all night chucking".
" Muttiah Muralitharan will not be playing today, as he has been up all night chucking".
But his arm was shown to bend less than the permitted 5 degrees for a spinner with his stock delivery, it was only the doosra where it was bending 14 degrees. Glenn McGrath, for example, was routinely bending his arm more than the 10 degrees allowed for a fast bowler yet was not being called for throwing.
Exactly. The laws were changed because slow motion studies showed that the majority of bowlers bent their aim more than the permissable degree. It was thus decided that the laws as they stood were unfair.
There's a nasty racist tinge to the slurs on Murali. As Grendel points out, he's the most scrutinished bowler in history and yet there is no evidence that he chucks. The only umpire who has called him a chucker is now discredited and yet still the niggles persist. I don't believe that a bowler called Smith or Jones would be subjected to the same levels of abuse that he has had.
The Large One
Who's Next?
Throw, throw, throw the ball
Gently down the seam
Murali, Murali, Murali, Murali
Chucks it like a dream
No ball!
Gently down the seam
Murali, Murali, Murali, Murali
Chucks it like a dream
No ball!
Storer68
New member
If you throw the ball, you can't control it when you're bowling.
provinding the arm is not starightened during the delivery of the ball, the delivery is legal. If the bowler straightens the elbow during the delivery of the ball, then that is an unfair delivery and the umpire shall call "no ball". providing the bowler's arm is bent during the whole of the delivery action, the ball is legal.
Murali cannot straighten his elbow and so is legal.
provinding the arm is not starightened during the delivery of the ball, the delivery is legal. If the bowler straightens the elbow during the delivery of the ball, then that is an unfair delivery and the umpire shall call "no ball". providing the bowler's arm is bent during the whole of the delivery action, the ball is legal.
Murali cannot straighten his elbow and so is legal.
Tyrone Biggums
Well-known member
The main reason for his record being a joke is that unlike Warne who constantly faced the worlds best batsmen all of his career, Murali copped alot of cheap wickets against the likes of Bangladesh and Zimbabwe.
If Warne had been bowling to such average opposition as often as Murali he'd have taken 1000 wickets.
Look at Murali's milestone wickets
150 vs Zimbabwe
350 vs Bangladesh
400 vs Zimbabwe
550 vs Bangaldesh
600 vs Bangladesh
700 vs Bangladesh
And besides his 200th wicket at the Oval the rest of his milestones were almost entirely on average subcontinent pitches.
To be the best you need to constantly play against the best, Murali never did that.
Murali played 27 test for 163 wickets from Bangaldesh/Zimbabwe contests.
Warne I think played 1 test vs Zimbawe and 1-2 vs Bangladesh.
Murali's record is a farce.
If Warne had been bowling to such average opposition as often as Murali he'd have taken 1000 wickets.
Look at Murali's milestone wickets
150 vs Zimbabwe
350 vs Bangladesh
400 vs Zimbabwe
550 vs Bangaldesh
600 vs Bangladesh
700 vs Bangladesh
And besides his 200th wicket at the Oval the rest of his milestones were almost entirely on average subcontinent pitches.
To be the best you need to constantly play against the best, Murali never did that.
Murali played 27 test for 163 wickets from Bangaldesh/Zimbabwe contests.
Warne I think played 1 test vs Zimbawe and 1-2 vs Bangladesh.
Murali's record is a farce.
Uncle Buck
Ghost Writer
- Jul 7, 2003
- 28,077
But then I guess Warne would have been pushing nearer 900 if he had not been banned for taking illegal substances and also some of the injuries he had along the way.
That scarcely makes it a farce; he can only take wickets in the games that he's playing in. I think taking 16 wickets on a good batting strip at the Oval proves that he's scarcely a dud bowler. And on your own figures, he's taken 547 wickets against the better test sides, in far fewer tests than the likes of Warne, Walsh, Wasim and McGrath.
Someone on TMS raised the very good point that Warne never had to bowl at the Australians (obviously) by some distance the best batting side in the world - something that Murali has done. So you could say that Warne's previous record was a farce as it was achieved against lesser sides.
Storer68
New member
and of course warne "suffered" from being ONE part of a world class bowling attack, whereas Murali is THE ONLY world class bowler that Sri Lanka have had. So Warne is less likely to take loads of wickets consistently
Scotty Mac
New member
- Jul 13, 2003
- 24,405
bonds is a drug taking cheat
Tyrone Biggums
Well-known member
That scarcely makes it a farce; he can only take wickets in the games that he's playing in. I think taking 16 wickets on a good batting strip at the Oval proves that he's scarcely a dud bowler. And on your own figures, he's taken 547 wickets against the better test sides, in far fewer tests than the likes of Warne, Walsh, Wasim and McGrath.
Someone on TMS raised the very good point that Warne never had to bowl at the Australians (obviously) by some distance the best batting side in the world - something that Murali has done. So you could say that Warne's previous record was a farce as it was achieved against lesser sides.
His average vs Australia is pretty ordinary.
Something like 36, where as his avg is like 11 against Bangladesh.
Everytime I've seen him play Australia he's been spanked around the park and hasnt looked like a world record holder at all.
In the recent games out here he ddin't look anything special with numbers like 1-140, 1-90, 2-170.