Why are you so desperate to deny the man his record? Do the other 550 test wickets (still more than most bowlers manage in a career) he has taken not count in your mind? If you want to argue that wickets against weak sides should be discounted then maybe you should knock 155 off Warne's tally that he took against poor England sides over the last fifteen years.
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Is Muralitharan Crickets Barry Bonds?
- Thread starter Kinky Gerbil
- Start date
Why are you so desperate to deny the man his record? Do the other 550 test wickets (still more than most bowlers manage in a career) he has taken not count in your mind? If you want to argue that wickets against weak sides should be discounted then maybe you should knock 155 off Warne's tally that he took against poor England sides over the last fifteen years.
Yeah, but he LOOKS like he chucks it! Far more so than say James Kirtley.
Uncle Buck
Ghost Writer
- Jul 7, 2003
- 28,077
What is going to happen if Rayner really starts to break through?
So why is it bollocks?
Because he doesn't throw it
Yeah, thanks for that - a compelling argument. Your confidence might have been understandable if the majority agreed with you, but they don't. So just so I can appeal to your level:He chucks it! NA NA NA NA NA.
Uncle Buck
Ghost Writer
- Jul 7, 2003
- 28,077
More chuking than a Friday night on West Street.
He chucks it! NA NA NA NA NA.
Okay, I'll basically repeat what I've said in earlier posts that you can't be bothered to read:
When Murali was first called for chucking, analysis of his action showed that the straightening of his arm was within the permitted tolerance of 5 degrees for spin bowlers. When he was called again, in 1999, amazingly exactly the same thing was found.
When doubts were raised about the legality of the doosra in 2004, it was found that FOR THE DOOSRA ONLY, he straightened his arm by 14 degrees, which was outside the law at the time. Murali was then banned from bowling the doosra while studies were carried out on numerous bowlers during which it was found that every bowler straightened their arm to a greater or lesser extent. Glenn McGrath, for example, straightened his arm by 12 degrees on his STOCK DELIVERY whereas the tolerance for a fast bowler at the time was 10 degrees. In effect McGrath was no balling every time he bowling, whilst Murali only was for the doosra. In fact the only bowler studied who didn't straighten their arm at all was Ramnaresh Sarwan.
The tolerance within the law was then changed to 15 degrees for any bowler, as the actions of so many bowlers were found to be outside the letter of the law. As Murali was bowling within the law as it was, the only difference this had was to make the doosra legal. However, it also made the actions of Glenn McGrath, Shaun Pollock, James Kirtley etc. etc. legal at the same time.
Basically, if you think Murali chucks it then by logical extension you think that almost every bowler in the game chucks it, as Murali straightens his arm a lot less than most.
If you wish to disagree with the laws of the game and the opinions of biomechanical experts from three different countries, who have carried out numerous studies into the man's action and declared it legal every time then feel free. You are, however, incorrect.
Storer68
New member
Highest wicket-taker in Tests
The Murali story in numbers
S Rajesh and HR Gopalakrishna
December 3, 2007
Paul Collingwood walks back, and Muttiah Muralitharan owns the world record © AFP
Fittingly, it was the doosra that brought him the world record. When Paul Collingwood played down the wrong line to lose his middle-and-off stumps, Muttiah Muralitharan took over from Shane Warne as the leading wicket-taker in Test cricket, in 29 fewer Tests than it had taken Warne to get to 708.
The feature of Muralitharan's career, which has already spanned more than 15 years, has been his phenomenal consistency. In 44 series that he has played in (excluding one-off Tests), only 10 times has his bowling average exceeded 35, and seven of those were before 2000. In the last eight years, his average for each year has never gone beyond 23. (Click here for his career summary, and here for a complete list of his wickets.)
The presence of another spin wizard in the same era has meant Murali's numbers have always been compared with Shane Warne's. The table below charts the journey for each bowler. Warne was faster off the blocks than Murali, getting to 100 wickets in just 23 Tests, compared to Murali's 27, but since then Murali has got his wickets at a much quicker rate in terms of dismissals per Test.
The wicket-taking journeys of Murali and Warne Wicket no. Murali - Tests Average Warne - Tests Average
100 27 31.49 23 24.19
200 42 26.90 42 22.92
300 58 25.17 63 23.56
400 72 23.53 92 26.11
500 87 22.89 108 25.51
600 101 22.35 126 25.24
700 113 21.33 144 25.36
709 116 21.67 - -
Murali's ability to spin the ball was never in doubt from the moment he entered Test cricket, but through most of the first half of his career, the turn was predictable, making him a much easier bowler to tackle. The doosra, though, has added a whole new dimension to his bowling, and made him a far more dangerous proposition for opposition batsmen. The table below tells the story.
Murali's career in two halves Wickets Average 5WI/ 10WM
First 58 Tests 302 25.17 24/ 5
Last 58 Tests* 408 19.08 37/ 15
As a matchwinner, Murali has no rival. In the 45 Tests that Sri Lanka have won with him in the team, he has taken a phenomenal 373 wickets - that's more than eight per match - at an average of 15. Only Warne, with 510, and Glenn McGrath (414) have taken more wickets in wins.
Best matchwinners in Tests (at least 200 wickets in wins) Bowler Tests Wickets Average Strike rate 5WI/ 10WM
Muttiah Muralitharan 45 373 15.19 41.4 36/ 16
Malcolm Marshall 43 254 16.78 38.1 17/ 4
Curtly Ambrose 44 229 16.86 44.4 13/ 3
Waqar Younis 39 222 18.20 35.0 14/ 4
Dennis Lillee 31 203 18.27 39.0 17/ 6
Shaun Pollock 48 218 18.33 47.8 9/ 1
Anil Kumble 41 279 18.41 44.1 20/ 5
Wasim Akram 41 211 18.48 42.3 13/ 2
Glenn McGrath 84 414 19.19 47.7 18/ 3
Courtney Walsh 52 239 19.72 46.2 10/ 2
Shane Warne 92 510 22.47 51.2 27/ 7
Murali's record has few blemishes, but the two teams he hasn't quite conquered have been Australia and India. He had a disappointing series in Australia recently, averaging 100 runs per wicket, while in eight Tests he has played in India, he has only managed 31 wickets at 39.58 apiece. Everywhere else, though, his stats are impeccable.
Murali in Australia/ India and the rest Tests Wickets Average 5WI/ 10WM
In Aus and Ind 13 43 49.58 2/ 0
In all other countries 103 667 19.87 59/ 20
The other criticism sometimes levelled - quite unfairly - against Murali is the number of wickets he has taken against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe. He has done exceptionally well against them, but remove those matches from his career numbers, and the stats still look very good.
Murali v Zim/ Bang and the rest Versus Tests Wickets Average 5WI/ 10WM
Zim and Bang 23 163 14.57 16/ 5
All other teams 93 547 23.79 45/ 15
More Murali milestones
He is the only bowler to take more than 50 wickets against every opposition team he has played.
Collingwood's wicket was also Murali's 50th against England at home, making him the only bowler to take 50 home wickets against four sides - Bangladesh, South Africa and Zimbabwe are the others.
With 20 ten-wicket hauls in Tests, he is clearly the leader in that category, with the second-placed Warne having managed only half that number. In fact, Murali has taken a ten-for at least once against every opposition that he has played against. His 60 five-wicket hauls is a record as well.
Murali's presence has been good news for the close-in fielders too: Mahela Jayawardene has taken 63 catches off him, which is the most by a bowler-fielder pair, excluding a wicketkeeper.
On 30 occasions he has caught a batsman off his own bowling, which is a record. Anil Kumble is next in line with 29.
Muralitharan is one of only six bowlers who have dismissed all the eleven batsmen in a Test match. Jim Laker. S Venkataraghavan, Geoff Dymock, Abdul Qadir and Waqar Younis are the others.
Murali remains the only bowler to capture 100-plus Test wickets at two venues. He has 143 at the Sinhalese Sports Club in Colombo, and 112 wickets in Kandy.
He is the only bowler to take 75 or more wickets in a calendar year on three occasions, achieving it in 2000, 2001 and 2006.
* All numbers till the end of the England's first innings of the Kandy Test.
© Cricinfo
The Murali story in numbers
S Rajesh and HR Gopalakrishna
December 3, 2007
Paul Collingwood walks back, and Muttiah Muralitharan owns the world record © AFP
Fittingly, it was the doosra that brought him the world record. When Paul Collingwood played down the wrong line to lose his middle-and-off stumps, Muttiah Muralitharan took over from Shane Warne as the leading wicket-taker in Test cricket, in 29 fewer Tests than it had taken Warne to get to 708.
The feature of Muralitharan's career, which has already spanned more than 15 years, has been his phenomenal consistency. In 44 series that he has played in (excluding one-off Tests), only 10 times has his bowling average exceeded 35, and seven of those were before 2000. In the last eight years, his average for each year has never gone beyond 23. (Click here for his career summary, and here for a complete list of his wickets.)
The presence of another spin wizard in the same era has meant Murali's numbers have always been compared with Shane Warne's. The table below charts the journey for each bowler. Warne was faster off the blocks than Murali, getting to 100 wickets in just 23 Tests, compared to Murali's 27, but since then Murali has got his wickets at a much quicker rate in terms of dismissals per Test.
The wicket-taking journeys of Murali and Warne Wicket no. Murali - Tests Average Warne - Tests Average
100 27 31.49 23 24.19
200 42 26.90 42 22.92
300 58 25.17 63 23.56
400 72 23.53 92 26.11
500 87 22.89 108 25.51
600 101 22.35 126 25.24
700 113 21.33 144 25.36
709 116 21.67 - -
Murali's ability to spin the ball was never in doubt from the moment he entered Test cricket, but through most of the first half of his career, the turn was predictable, making him a much easier bowler to tackle. The doosra, though, has added a whole new dimension to his bowling, and made him a far more dangerous proposition for opposition batsmen. The table below tells the story.
Murali's career in two halves Wickets Average 5WI/ 10WM
First 58 Tests 302 25.17 24/ 5
Last 58 Tests* 408 19.08 37/ 15
As a matchwinner, Murali has no rival. In the 45 Tests that Sri Lanka have won with him in the team, he has taken a phenomenal 373 wickets - that's more than eight per match - at an average of 15. Only Warne, with 510, and Glenn McGrath (414) have taken more wickets in wins.
Best matchwinners in Tests (at least 200 wickets in wins) Bowler Tests Wickets Average Strike rate 5WI/ 10WM
Muttiah Muralitharan 45 373 15.19 41.4 36/ 16
Malcolm Marshall 43 254 16.78 38.1 17/ 4
Curtly Ambrose 44 229 16.86 44.4 13/ 3
Waqar Younis 39 222 18.20 35.0 14/ 4
Dennis Lillee 31 203 18.27 39.0 17/ 6
Shaun Pollock 48 218 18.33 47.8 9/ 1
Anil Kumble 41 279 18.41 44.1 20/ 5
Wasim Akram 41 211 18.48 42.3 13/ 2
Glenn McGrath 84 414 19.19 47.7 18/ 3
Courtney Walsh 52 239 19.72 46.2 10/ 2
Shane Warne 92 510 22.47 51.2 27/ 7
Murali's record has few blemishes, but the two teams he hasn't quite conquered have been Australia and India. He had a disappointing series in Australia recently, averaging 100 runs per wicket, while in eight Tests he has played in India, he has only managed 31 wickets at 39.58 apiece. Everywhere else, though, his stats are impeccable.
Murali in Australia/ India and the rest Tests Wickets Average 5WI/ 10WM
In Aus and Ind 13 43 49.58 2/ 0
In all other countries 103 667 19.87 59/ 20
The other criticism sometimes levelled - quite unfairly - against Murali is the number of wickets he has taken against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe. He has done exceptionally well against them, but remove those matches from his career numbers, and the stats still look very good.
Murali v Zim/ Bang and the rest Versus Tests Wickets Average 5WI/ 10WM
Zim and Bang 23 163 14.57 16/ 5
All other teams 93 547 23.79 45/ 15
More Murali milestones
He is the only bowler to take more than 50 wickets against every opposition team he has played.
Collingwood's wicket was also Murali's 50th against England at home, making him the only bowler to take 50 home wickets against four sides - Bangladesh, South Africa and Zimbabwe are the others.
With 20 ten-wicket hauls in Tests, he is clearly the leader in that category, with the second-placed Warne having managed only half that number. In fact, Murali has taken a ten-for at least once against every opposition that he has played against. His 60 five-wicket hauls is a record as well.
Murali's presence has been good news for the close-in fielders too: Mahela Jayawardene has taken 63 catches off him, which is the most by a bowler-fielder pair, excluding a wicketkeeper.
On 30 occasions he has caught a batsman off his own bowling, which is a record. Anil Kumble is next in line with 29.
Muralitharan is one of only six bowlers who have dismissed all the eleven batsmen in a Test match. Jim Laker. S Venkataraghavan, Geoff Dymock, Abdul Qadir and Waqar Younis are the others.
Murali remains the only bowler to capture 100-plus Test wickets at two venues. He has 143 at the Sinhalese Sports Club in Colombo, and 112 wickets in Kandy.
He is the only bowler to take 75 or more wickets in a calendar year on three occasions, achieving it in 2000, 2001 and 2006.
* All numbers till the end of the England's first innings of the Kandy Test.
© Cricinfo
Warne never had to bowl to the Australian batting order but he did have McGrath and usually a couple of other match winning bowlers in the same attack while Muri has more or less carried the Sri Lankan attack.
Pays your money and take your choice but I would rather have Warne in my side.
His action has been found to be good so we have to accept it is, but when you know your action is being looked at you are probably going to make sure it is ok!
Pays your money and take your choice but I would rather have Warne in my side.
His action has been found to be good so we have to accept it is, but when you know your action is being looked at you are probably going to make sure it is ok!
Buffalo Seagull
Active member
I think the reason his action looks so dodgy is more to do with the bend in his wrist than his elbow. The position of his hand compared to the rest of his arm at the point of delivery makes his whole arm look bent
fatbadger
New member
Brilliant cricketer. Not a chucker.
End of.
End of.
Barry Izbak
U.T.A.
Murali is a nice guy.
Bonds is a surly character who is unpopular amongst other ball players, as much for his attitude as for the questionmarks over his use of the juice.
Bonds is a surly character who is unpopular amongst other ball players, as much for his attitude as for the questionmarks over his use of the juice.
It's an interesting discussion, but not one that I'm going to have with someone who can't write anything wihtout patronising and declaring anyone else's opinion incorrect. Perhaps you could inform the entire cricket establishment that you've finally put this one to bed. Grendel hath spoken...
Basil Fawlty
Don't Mention The War
He deserves the record, with all the investigations into his bowling action.
It's not an interesting discussion at all - there's no discussion to be had about it. According to the laws of the game he doesn't throw, according to the ICC he doesn't throw, and according to scientists from establishments in three different countries he doesn't throw. If you don't want to accept that his action is perfectly within the laws of the game that's entirely up to you, but the fact is that you're wrong.