Is Keir really credible?

[Jolly Red Giant]

Get the likes of her, Zarah Sultana, Lloyd Russell-Moyle out of the Party, get more in like Peter Kyle and Labour will win a huge majority in 2024

Starmer has already expelled thousands of LP members because they were Corbyn supporters - a massive purge has been underway since he became leader - the LP membership has dropped by more than 200,000 since Corbyn was ousted - so expelling a left-wing MP like Sultana would not be anything new.

Starmer is nothing more than a very pale pink tory - and the LP conference was nauseating - bootlicking the monarchy and British nationalism (to a degree even Blair would not have considered). The LP could well win the next general election - not because Starmer's LP is any good - but because the Tories under Truss are imploding - and if Starmer does get into power he will f*ck things up even worse than the Tories.

As for Kyle - he has already f*cked up as Shadow Secretary for Northern Ireland - whipping up sectarian tensions because of ill-conceived and totally mis-judged comments about a border poll that demonstrate he knows nothing about the situation in the North of Ireland. If he continued in this vein following a LP election victory he could be responsible for reigniting sectarian conflict in the North.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I agree with you.

My reading of her remark was 'Why would a black person go to somewhere like Eton, a place for for the establishment elite, which you wouldn't expect a black person to do ?' rather than suggesting he is any way inferior and incapable. Thus it ceases to become a racist remark and more one about a derision of the elite public school system and somehow suggesting he is eroding the principles a black person should have concerning them.

David Lammy's muted response seems to endorse that. Although it is still too much of a cultural generalisation that doesn't fit.

I agree. It is more classist than racist but clumsily done.

 

[Eeyore]

Yes. Crass. She has made a grovelling personal apology to Kwarteng, which is nice.

I would imagine that plenty will argue with your assessment that it wasn't racist however. Why is it not the case that if you make derogatory comments about people based on their race, which is what she did, it isn't racist, regardless of whether the object of the comment is the same race as yourself? I am equivocal about this, but I am certainly not sufficiently motivated to argue with anyone who suggests she was being racist. She will just have to suck it up.

Anyway, she was suspended so fast the blood would have rushed out of her face due to the G force, and her political ambitions will have to be put on ice for a suitable period, which is appropriate.

All in all, nothing to tarnish the current shine on Sir Kier.

It certainly was racist, Starmer said so this morning - he was right.

Really pleased that he acted so fast.

Get the likes of her, Zarah Sultana, Lloyd Russell-Moyle out of the Party, get more in like Peter Kyle and Labour will win a huge majority in 2024

I appreciate the replies. I think I finally got round to explaining my thoughts rather than typing hurried responses in the end.

I felt she was saying that Eton and private schools are the bastion of white privilege, the ruling classes, the aristocracy. She clearly has an issue with that and was suggesting that a black person with any respect shouldn't be seen there.

I don't think of that as a racist statement (to me racism is a prejudice based on the regard of another race/group as inferior) but she was applying her own standard to black culture. She was wrong though as it was a cultural generalisation and a case of how folk from certain cultures and micro cultures have certain characteristics expected of them. We see this in micro-cultures. We see this within the cultures themselves. A subject which, as I said, merits study and discussion.

Her view seems to be that he was black so he should hate the Tories. A bit like the Democrat suggestion that a black person who didn't vote for them wasn't black.

It's a stupid comment based on assumption. I didn't see at racist, and I don't think David Lammy did either. I saw it as ill-judged, miss-informed and applying a stereo-type, however honourable she considered that stereo-type to be.

I think racism is a serious issue still, and I worry that word is easily weaponised to render it almost meaningless. We live in a time where we wouldn't want that.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Starmer has already expelled thousands of LP members because they were Corbyn supporters - a massive purge has been underway since he became leader - the LP membership has dropped by more than 200,000 since Corbyn was ousted - so expelling a left-wing MP like Sultana would not be anything new.

Don't exaggerate.
https://www.jewishnews.co.uk/new-figures-confirm-huge-increase-in-labour-expulsions-under-starmer/

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Starmer has already expelled thousands of LP members because they were Corbyn supporters - a massive purge has been underway since he became leader - the LP membership has dropped by more than 200,000 since Corbyn was ousted - so expelling a left-wing MP like Sultana would not be anything new.

Starmer is nothing more than a very pale pink tory - and the LP conference was nauseating - bootlicking the monarchy and British nationalism (to a degree even Blair would not have considered). The LP could well win the next general election - not because Starmer's LP is any good - but because the Tories under Truss are imploding - and if Starmer does get into power he will f*ck things up even worse than the Tories.

As for Kyle - he has already f*cked up as Shadow Secretary for Northern Ireland - whipping up sectarian tensions because of ill-conceived and totally mis-judged comments about a border poll that demonstrate he knows nothing about the situation in the North of Ireland. If he continued in this vein following a LP election victory he could be responsible for reigniting sectarian conflict in the North.

Another person to the left of the labour party, feverishly giving succour to the tories, with his twisted and partial world view.

Those languishing on the fringes of the political world, unrepresented by politicians with whom they agree, forever bizarrely attacking the politicians in the mainstream most closely aligned with their preferences, never got their heads around the basic truth that politics is the art of the possible.

Someone in my family, a Corbyn supporter, once told me he would prefer a conservative government over a Starmer labour government, because Starmer is a traitor to socialism (and supporter of the 'terrorist nation', Israel). OK, mate.

I am astonished by your absurd political campaigning on here, JRG. It is bad enough with jackass right wingers posting anti labour nonsense (most of these have now been banned). When it's jack ass left wingers, with no dog in the fight (the Irish communist party will never be elected in the UK), I raise an eyebrow.

Still, you and Borat are probably helping send sensible middle ground people further towards Starmer. If the likes of you hate him, he must be even better than we thought.

 

[rogersix]

Starmer has already expelled thousands of LP members because they were Corbyn supporters - a massive purge has been underway since he became leader - the LP membership has dropped by more than 200,000 since Corbyn was ousted - so expelling a left-wing MP like Sultana would not be anything new.

Starmer is nothing more than a very pale pink tory - and the LP conference was nauseating - bootlicking the monarchy and British nationalism (to a degree even Blair would not have considered). The LP could well win the next general election - not because Starmer's LP is any good - but because the Tories under Truss are imploding - and if Starmer does get into power he will f*ck things up even worse than the Tories.

As for Kyle - he has already f*cked up as Shadow Secretary for Northern Ireland - whipping up sectarian tensions because of ill-conceived and totally mis-judged comments about a border poll that demonstrate he knows nothing about the situation in the North of Ireland. If he continued in this vein following a LP election victory he could be responsible for reigniting sectarian conflict in the North.

christ! you are tedious

 

[LamieRobertson]

Is Keir credible?

Two political writers talking on PM yesterday, one from The Spectator (!) agreed that after his conference performance yesterday, he is!

Who'd have thunk it, eh?

See I told you this thread needed to come back on the main board


Pity it’s still the same old stuff …all too predictable

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

Starmer has already expelled thousands of LP members because they were Corbyn supporters - a massive purge has been underway since he became leader - the LP membership has dropped by more than 200,000 since Corbyn was ousted - so expelling a left-wing MP like Sultana would not be anything new.

Starmer is nothing more than a very pale pink tory - and the LP conference was nauseating - bootlicking the monarchy and British nationalism (to a degree even Blair would not have considered). The LP could well win the next general election - not because Starmer's LP is any good - but because the Tories under Truss are imploding - and if Starmer does get into power he will f*ck things up even worse than the Tories.

As for Kyle - he has already f*cked up as Shadow Secretary for Northern Ireland - whipping up sectarian tensions because of ill-conceived and totally mis-judged comments about a border poll that demonstrate he knows nothing about the situation in the North of Ireland. If he continued in this vein following a LP election victory he could be responsible for reigniting sectarian conflict in the North.

You don't get it do you?

England won't vote for a socialist Govt - see Corbyn

They will vote for a centre left Party - see Blair

I guess you'd rather keep the Tory Party in Govt?

 

[Badger Boy]

As for Kyle - he has already f*cked up as Shadow Secretary for Northern Ireland - whipping up sectarian tensions because of ill-conceived and totally mis-judged comments about a border poll that demonstrate he knows nothing about the situation in the North of Ireland. If he continued in this vein following a LP election victory he could be responsible for reigniting sectarian conflict in the North.

All of it's rubbish, but this is extraordinary. Tying to blame Peter Kyle for reigniting sectarian conflict! Harsh.

 

[rogersix]

See I told you this thread needed to come back on the main board


Pity it’s still the same old stuff …all too predictable

enlighten us then

 

[LamieRobertson]

I agree. It is more classist than racist but clumsily done.

So Sir Keir is wrong?

 

[LamieRobertson]

enlighten us then

Enlighten what and us? You mean you?

 

[beorhthelm]

I appreciate the replies. I think I finally got round to explaining my thoughts rather than typing hurried responses in the end.

I felt she was saying that Eton and private schools are the bastion of white privilege, the ruling classes, the aristocracy. She clearly has an issue with that and was suggesting that a black person with any respect shouldn't be seen there.

I don't think of that as a racist statement (to me racism is a prejudice based on the regard of another race/group as inferior) but she was applying her own standard to black culture. She was wrong though as it was a cultural generalisation and a case of how folk from certain cultures and micro cultures have certain characteristics expected of them. We see this in micro-cultures. We see this within the cultures themselves. A subject which, as I said, merits study and discussion.

Her view seems to be that he was black so he should hate the Tories. A bit like the Democrat suggestion that a black person who didn't vote for them wasn't black.

It's a stupid comment based on assumption. I didn't see at racist, and I don't think David Lammy did either. I saw it as ill-judged, miss-informed and applying a stereo-type, however honourable she considered that stereo-type to be.

I think racism is a serious issue still, and I worry that word is easily weaponised to render it almost meaningless. We live in a time where we wouldn't want that.

thats a lot of words and interpretation to distract from the comment "he doesnt sound black".

 

[rogersix]

Enlighten what and us? You mean you?

yes

 

[usernamed]

Starmer has already expelled thousands of LP members because they were Corbyn supporters - a massive purge has been underway since he became leader - the LP membership has dropped by more than 200,000 since Corbyn was ousted - so expelling a left-wing MP like Sultana would not be anything new.

Starmer is nothing more than a very pale pink tory - and the LP conference was nauseating - bootlicking the monarchy and British nationalism (to a degree even Blair would not have considered). The LP could well win the next general election - not because Starmer's LP is any good - but because the Tories under Truss are imploding - and if Starmer does get into power he will f*ck things up even worse than the Tories.

As for Kyle - he has already f*cked up as Shadow Secretary for Northern Ireland - whipping up sectarian tensions because of ill-conceived and totally mis-judged comments about a border poll that demonstrate he knows nothing about the situation in the North of Ireland. If he continued in this vein following a LP election victory he could be responsible for reigniting sectarian conflict in the North.

I’m happy to read differing views, but I agree with others that you completely fail to understand the political reality of Britain, and what most of Britain is prepared to vote for.

I don’t doubt your sincerity, and that your desire for change is well-meaning, but you are, frankly, detached from the reality of what’s currently achievable within Britain’s political framework, with the general outlook of the British electorate.

 

[LamieRobertson]

yes

…and which bit?

 

[rogersix]

…and which bit?

all of it

 

[LamieRobertson]

all of it

First bit really is just a joke between GB and myself following posts earlier in a week ..second is just referring to that most posts regarding politics on here are predictable as they represent an entrenched view …and that links into the first bit …clear as mud now?

 

[CheeseRolls]

As for Kyle - he has already f*cked up as Shadow Secretary for Northern Ireland - whipping up sectarian tensions because of ill-conceived and totally mis-judged comments about a border poll that demonstrate he knows nothing about the situation in the North of Ireland. If he continued in this vein following a LP election victory he could be responsible for reigniting sectarian conflict in the North.

So behind or in front of Troy Parrott in the Shadow Northern Ireland Secretary rankings?

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

I agree. It is more classist than racist but clumsily done.

No it's not - it was a racist comment and Stamer has agreed it was a racist comment. He is right.

It was far more than 'clumsy' - if there's any clumsy comment here it's yours.