[Albion] Is anyone else pissed off...

[Iggle Piggle]

No worries, neither you or Iggle know **** all about what is said or done behind the scenes - its knee-jerk guesswork and nothing to get enraged about.

Alex Ferguson won the last title with Man United with a team that was largely bang average. Shinji Kagawa, Nani, Anderson, Rafael da Silva and, er, Danny Welbeck were some of the middle of the road PL players that lifted the trophy before they all turned to shit under David Moyes. There have been several articles I've read where SAF has taken the players to one side convinced them they are world beaters and watched them lift the title whilst everyone else questions how he did it. Clough did the same winning the European Cup with Forest and that team was largely journeymen. Jose is the only manager in the modern day who goes down road and there is a counter argument to say that he has run his course.

Under Potter, there are so many positives but he is clearly a more cerebral character than the managerial greats I mention above. Whilst the advantages are visible, there is a clear problem in the goal scoring department which isn't just Maupay. Connolly has missed 3 more or less open goals (West Brom, Spurs, Sheff Utd) and there are countless others that have done the rounds. You are right - I have no idea what goes on behind the scenes - but we do look like a side that thinks too much and lacks belief in the final third. Maupays interview he said as much worrying about the reaction to missing rather than burying a simple chance.

Coaching has improved immeasurably in the last 20 odd years (and the kids I teach have access to so much more than I had at a similar age) but the one thing that may have regressed with a softer approach is old fashioned lighting a fire under someone's arse and watching then react. If this team were just a bit more ruthless they'd be thinking about Europe. Its easier said than done but they need to find some confidence from somewhere.

 

[Swansman]

Murray doesn't go from being good enough to past it in a single summer holiday. GPot froze him out as soon as he threw in Connolly (that's gone well so far...)


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Why wouldnt he? A player of his age usually deteoriates very rapidly. Throughout PL history you could find a lot of players scoring double figures aged 32-33, after that it usually goes very quickly downhill. Murray along with the 51 capped never-pacy Teddy Sheringham are the best 34 year old scorers in Premier League history, which is obviously fantastic.

If we look at players about his age and their production drop from season to season it shows that things can go very quickly downhill, like Shearer going from 22 goals aged 33-34 to 7 goals aged 34-35 or Defoe going from 15 goals aged 34-35 to 4 goals aged 35-36.

Sometimes its just over and it can go very rapidly. Glenn Murray should be very proud he lasted as long as he did in an era where football has turned a lot quicker than most of his successful competitors in the category "capable 34+ year old PL scorers".

It was quite obvious already in the first game against Watford (the 0-3 win) where Glenn started that things were about to come to an end as on multiple occasions he could not recieve a pass or despite advantage get to a ball put into a space as he simply didnt have the legs for it. In his last season, Glenn scored one goal in 786 minutes of play.

When Glenn moved this summer, there were lots of people predicting that he would score plenty of goals and perhaps be one of the top scorers in the Championship. Instead he has scored two goals and after starting eight out of his first ten games in Nottingham, CH have barely looked in his direction over the last month.

Its hard to see (and apparently accept) your favorites fall from being top of their game, but while cases could possibly be made for the other players you mentioned (Ryan, Duffy, Bernardo, Pröpper), GM was never going to repeat his previous numbers last season or (even less so) this season. He was simply done at this level.

 

[Springal]

Murray doesn't go from being good enough to past it in a single summer holiday. GPot froze him out as soon as he threw in Connolly (that's gone well so far...)
k

Hows Murray getting on back with Hughton at Forest ?

 

[Swansman]

Alex Ferguson won the last title with Man United with a team that was largely bang average. Shinji Kagawa, Nani, Anderson, Rafael da Silva and, er, Danny Welbeck were some of the middle of the road PL players that lifted the trophy before they all turned to shit under David Moyes. There have been several articles I've read where SAF has taken the players to one side convinced them they are world beaters and watched them lift the title whilst everyone else questions how he did it. Clough did the same winning the European Cup with Forest and that team was largely journeymen. Jose is the only manager in the modern day who goes down road and there is a counter argument to say that he has run his course.

Under Potter, there are so many positives but he is clearly a more cerebral character than the managerial greats I mention above. Whilst the advantages are visible, there is a clear problem in the goal scoring department which isn't just Maupay. Connolly has missed 3 more or less open goals (West Brom, Spurs, Sheff Utd) and there are countless others that have done the rounds. You are right - I have no idea what goes on behind the scenes - but we do look like a side that thinks too much and lacks belief in the final third. Maupays interview he said as much worrying about the reaction to missing rather than burying a simple chance.

Coaching has improved immeasurably in the last 20 odd years (and the kids I teach have access to so much more than I had at a similar age) but the one thing that may have regressed with a softer approach is old fashioned lighting a fire under someone's arse and watching then react. If this team were just a bit more ruthless they'd be thinking about Europe. Its easier said than done but they need to find some confidence from somewhere.

Yes you are correct that Brighton has not been as good as Manchester United were under the last Premier League winning season and I'm not going to argue against SAF being a better manager than Potter but the explanation that SAF had a bang average squad that he simply told were world beaters thus making them so is a very simplified explanation. Aside for the players you mention, they also had Patrice Evra, Rio Ferdinand, Nemanja Vidic, Michael Carrick, Paul Scholes, Ryan Giggs, Robin van Persie and so on. Bang average.

Agree that the team got issues in the goal scoring department and that everyone including Potter is part of that problem. Could Potter do more to raise the confidence of eg Maupay? Maybe. On the other hand there are plenty of voices saying GP is showing him way too much confidence.

Either way, in your comparison, the main difference between SAF:s main strikers Robin van Persie & Wayne Rooney and Brightons main strikers Neal Maupay and Danny Welbeck (who by the way scored a whopping one goal in 27 appearances after SAF telling him he is a world beater) is not what the managers are telling them. Its not even "lighting a fire under the arse", like SAF and presumably his squad of seasoned leaders and veterans did. The main difference comes down to class. I'm not saying Potter couldnt do anything better, but I'm saying its a lot more complicated than "Maupay is missing chances and having poor confidence, hence GP must be poor in managing the psychology of the players".

 

[Terry Butcher Tribute Act]

Hows Murray getting on back with Hughton at Forest ?

He's finished now. A loan spell after 18 months out of the team at 36?


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[Springal]

He's finished now. A loan spell after 18 months out of the team at 36?


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Didn’t he go to Watford to ?

 

[zefarelly]

Alex Ferguson won the last title with Man United with a team that was largely bang average. Shinji Kagawa, Nani, Anderson, Rafael da Silva and, er, Danny Welbeck were some of the middle of the road PL players that lifted the trophy before they all turned to shit under David Moyes. There have been several articles I've read where SAF has taken the players to one side convinced them they are world beaters and watched them lift the title whilst everyone else questions how he did it. Clough did the same winning the European Cup with Forest and that team was largely journeymen. Jose is the only manager in the modern day who goes down road and there is a counter argument to say that he has run his course.

Under Potter, there are so many positives but he is clearly a more cerebral character than the managerial greats I mention above. Whilst the advantages are visible, there is a clear problem in the goal scoring department which isn't just Maupay. Connolly has missed 3 more or less open goals (West Brom, Spurs, Sheff Utd) and there are countless others that have done the rounds. You are right - I have no idea what goes on behind the scenes - but we do look like a side that thinks too much and lacks belief in the final third. Maupays interview he said as much worrying about the reaction to missing rather than burying a simple chance.

Coaching has improved immeasurably in the last 20 odd years (and the kids I teach have access to so much more than I had at a similar age) but the one thing that may have regressed with a softer approach is old fashioned lighting a fire under someone's arse and watching then react. If this team were just a bit more ruthless they'd be thinking about Europe. Its easier said than done but they need to find some confidence from somewhere.

Bobby Robson and Terry Venables were also very good man managers.

The game has changed a lot, not all for the better.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

Yes you are correct that Brighton has not been as good as Manchester United were under the last Premier League winning season and I'm not going to argue against SAF being a better manager than Potter but the explanation that SAF had a bang average squad that he simply told were world beaters thus making them so is a very simplified explanation. Aside for the players you mention, they also had Patrice Evra, Rio Ferdinand, Nemanja Vidic, Michael Carrick, Paul Scholes, Ryan Giggs, Robin van Persie and so on. Bang average.

Agree that the team got issues in the goal scoring department and that everyone including Potter is part of that problem. Could Potter do more to raise the confidence of eg Maupay? Maybe. On the other hand there are plenty of voices saying GP is showing him way too much confidence.

Either way, in your comparison, the main difference between SAF:s main strikers Robin van Persie & Wayne Rooney and Brightons main strikers Neal Maupay and Danny Welbeck (who by the way scored a whopping one goal in 27 appearances after SAF telling him he is a world beater) is not what the managers are telling them. Its not even "lighting a fire under the arse", like SAF and presumably his squad of seasoned leaders and veterans did. The main difference comes down to class. I'm not saying Potter couldnt do anything better, but I'm saying its a lot more complicated than "Maupay is missing chances and having poor confidence, hence GP must be poor in managing the psychology of the players".

That Utd team were nowhere near vintage. Yes, they contained some top class players but there were large numbers of that squad that never reached the heights that they operated at under SAF and the team were bobbins the next season. I think they finished 7th without looking. Clearly, there was genius at work with what SAF teams achieved. Granted, It's a high bar I'm setting here as he is possibly the greatest manager of all time.

I'm not by any means saying Potter is "poor" at the psychology of managing players and I'm not Potter out by any means. The improvement in some of the younger players especially is there for all to see. I've posted before that I think he will end up at a top 6 club. I think though, he is better at the softer side of man management than the luzzing of tea cups style and it is possible - albeit by no means certain - that it may get a better reaction. He is clearly a level headed bloke that doesn't lose his rag very often - which is to his credit - but sometimes this can be misinterpreted as not caring or that the players he protects will be supported in perpetuity. Somehow, this team needs to believe which is what it looks to me from the outside that they don't. Fix that, and he will end up at a top 6 club and this team will fly.. Some (not all) of these players are better than they think they are (and I'd agree it's a lot more complicated as sorting out the mind is as complex as it gets).

 

[darkwolf666]

So Ryan was only competent keeper with Duffy in front of him but not Webster AND Burn? Not to mention two other centre halfs - White and Veltman? Makes no sense. He stopped making saves altogether.

Murray doesn't go from being good enough to past it in a single summer holiday. GPot froze him out as soon as he threw in Connolly (that's gone well so far...)

Stephens was on the way out I accept, but there's no way Propper should be as far down the pecking order as he is. Maybe that's more a result of a lack of balance in the squad than Potter.

I haven't mentioned Bernardo either, who despite seeming more suited to Potterball, has been shown the door.

I'm not Potter out, I just don't think he's the Messiah. He's got good bits and bad bits and i don't know why you get shut down if you dare to criticise.

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Sorry, about from Leeds fans no one thinks their manager is the Messiah - sorry again, excepting Swansman...!