If a football club's fans behave like these RUDDY students (Merged)

[Rookie]

Now it might get more attention but how seriously would it have been taken if it was back in november on the tenth?
I'm in two minds about what we do now. But i'm more inclined to have a sit in, get some speakers hooked up to an MP3/Ipod/Laptop and we just play sing a long songs for several hours in town.

I'd dare say bringing central London to a stand still whenever would get the attention of media outlets no matter who is doing it

 

[KneeOn]

But why have you promoted it then?

i've tried hard to stay in the middle and when criticism comes from one way, defend what is being criticized which isn't easy to do.

I dont condone or condem the violence becasue I understand and agree with aspects from both camps. I see how the violence is going to a) happen no matter what give the situation and b) how the violence is going to fulfil a function in a protest.

I also see however: its often mindless. Its excessive. Its wrong.

I'm very much on the fence since I am a student who is angry and angry people can get aggressive and I refuse to condem their actions because I agree with the principle of showing how angry we still are. But then I also sympathise with those who are having buildings damaged, who are being scared which is why I equally refuse to promote it.

I do think however any tiny need for violence is now gone. WE've got the attention. We should show now that we're capable of an inspiring, innoventive campaign instead of "right, lets have another march and this time smash up... this building".

I know I've said silly comments that contradict what i'm saying now but they come from either frustration and therefore me losing my head a bit or from trying to defend both sides of the arguement at the same time.

 

[The Spanish]

i've tried hard to stay in the middle and when criticism comes from one way, defend what is being criticized which isn't easy to do.

I dont condone or condem the violence becasue I understand and agree with aspects from both camps. I see how the violence is going to a) happen no matter what give the situation and b) how the violence is going to fulfil a function in a protest.

I also see however: its often mindless. Its excessive. Its wrong.

I'm very much on the fence since I am a student who is angry and angry people can get aggressive and I refuse to condem their actions because I agree with the principle of showing how angry we still are. But then I also sympathise with those who are having buildings damaged, who are being scared which is why I equally refuse to promote it.

I do think however any tiny need for violence is now gone. WE've got the attention. We should show now that we're capable of an inspiring, innoventive campaign instead of "right, lets have another march and this time smash up... this building".

I know I've said silly comments that contradict what i'm saying now but they come from either frustration and therefore me losing my head a bit or from trying to defend both sides of the arguement at the same time.

all well and good but you have to admit though most of the kiddies on these protests are utter utter spanners and drips.

 

[KneeOn]

How about some "inside" information?

Saturday there is a Sussex school and college meet to decide our next plan of action. Likely to be a more inventive demonstration. Fruitnveg and rookie are probably right about how we'll have gotten attention. But we've convayed our anger under no uncertain terms. We now need to show stamina and wit.

Much to many posters delight i'm sure, AFAIK the next protest is more about EMA before we resume our campaign on the fees.

 

[The Spanish]

what is all this gotten business jan palach.

 

[KneeOn]

all well and good but you have to admit though most of the kiddies on these protests are utter utter spanners and drips.

Have you ever looked at crowd psychology? (not being sarcy but just wondering)

i've covered it in Psychology (yes only A-level but still) and its crazy how deindividuation and emergant norms can change even the most sound of students in to rioters. Spanners and drips? No. Less "free thinking" and "independant" as they might think? Definately. I put a thing up about how we've got to move forward on a facebook group and mentioned the SWP (and I think i've mentioend this before on here). The SWP have targeted the older students who are more willing to be aggressive and gotten them to get youngsters who are just following the crowd and are easily led to start riots.

I'm not defending actions but just commenting on an understanding of why some students are acting in ways they never would.

There is definately some right nasty ***** on these protests though. Like any major movement.

 

[Gary Leeds]

so there has been no increase on the 3k since it was introduced in 1998 you say?

Going by one of the true indicators of inflation, the cost of a loaf of bread, then an increase of 3 times is about right. Bread was around 38p for a decent loaf in 1998. A loaf of Warburtons is £1.29 at my local supermarket or just over 3 times what is was in 1998!

Would we have been having these riots if the costs had gone up each year for the last 12 years?

 

[The Spanish]

Have you ever looked at crowd psychology? (not being sarcy but just wondering)

i

i attended many many football matches in the 1980s. that is the equivalent a f***ing masters in crowd pyschology.

 

[KneeOn]

so there has been no increase on the 3k since it was introduced in 1998 you say?

Going by one of the true indicators of inflation, the cost of a loaf of bread, then an increase of 3 times is about right. Bread was around 38p for a decent loaf in 1998. A loaf of Warburtons is £1.29 at my local supermarket or just over 3 times what is was in 1998!

Would we have been having these riots if the costs had gone up each year for the last 12 years?

Errrr no i've not said that at all!

Interesting point though. Its like that experiment with a frog. Put it in cold water, and boil it and the frog won't notice until its dead. Put it already boiled water though and it jumps straight out. I'm not sure, there might have been if after four years of increaces it showed no signs of letting up.

 

[Tony Meolas Loan Spell]

And petol and fags have also increased. Oh and booze.

 

[KneeOn]

i attended many many football matches in the 1980s. that is the equivalent a f***ing masters in crowd pyschology.

fair point!

Surely then you've seen people you may have known turn from charming and intelligent people in to brutes on the terraces?

 

[steward 433]

i attended many many football matches in the 1980s. that is the equivalent a f***ing masters in crowd pyschology.

The north stand being run!!

 

[The Spanish]

fair point!

Surely then you've seen people you may have known turn from charming and intelligent people in to brutes on the terraces?

i can guarantee not one of them would have swung off the cenatoph or pissed on a statue of churchill. not without getting f***ing annihilated by the others.

 

[Gary Leeds]

Errrr no i've not said that at all!

Interesting point though. Its like that experiment with a frog. Put it in cold water, and boil it and the frog won't notice until its dead. Put it already boiled water though and it jumps straight out. I'm not sure, there might have been if after four years of increaces it showed no signs of letting up.

I was not meaning you specifically, there was a post a few pages back saying that the fees were introduced in 1998 and 12 years later they have gone up to 3 times the original amount.

 

[Gary Leeds]

i can guarantee not one of them would have swung off the cenatoph or pissed on a statue of churchill. not without getting f***ing annihilated by the others.

This totally

If it was the minority doing these things then the decent people amongst the demonstration should have stopped them doing it as soon as they saw them. As has been said you can protest without vandalism and violence

Also, as the police can arrest people for swearing in the street, how come placards with "f***" written on them are allowed? Again, is this not proof along with going tooled up that people went out with the intention of having a ruck?

 

[bhaexpress]

Saturday there is a Sussex school and college meet to decide our next plan of action. Likely to be a more inventive demonstration. Fruitnveg and rookie are probably right about how we'll have gotten attention. But we've convayed our anger under no uncertain terms. We now need to show stamina and wit.

You'd all be a better off just accepting the new legislation as NOTHING you do will make this government back down. Stay as angry as you want but you'll be wasting your time and public money trying to undo what is a done deal. I suggest that if you still feel the need to protest find a cause that people are sympathetic to like World poverty or cruelty.

 

[KneeOn]

i can guarantee not one of them would have swung off the cenatoph or pissed on a statue of churchill. not without getting f***ing annihilated by the others.

Of cource. It was mentioned earlier (i can't remember who by) that it isn't an insult to WHAT those statues or the cenatoph means but its because they are there. I totally disagree with what was done. We've shown that we are young in experience with those actions though. We're going to make mistakes protesting and its grossly wrong. You coudl have stuck any kind of statue with a flag on it and the nutcase would have swung.

Could I point out that this is an example of where being in the middle is frankly a bit shit. Because you are right, its wrong. But then there are things under the incident that NSC so often disregards and just looks at "some kid deciding to disrespect our soldiers". Which is where I try to put another view and it comes across wrong.

In no way would i ever not condem what you mentioned. Its wholly wrong.

 

[KneeOn]

You'd all be a better off just accepting the new legislation as NOTHING you do will make this government back down. Stay as angry as you want but you'll be wasting your time and public money trying to undo what is a done deal. I suggest that if you still feel the need to protest find a cause that people are sympathetic to like World poverty or cruelty.

If you did that during Poll Tax...

 

[Stoo82]

If you did that during Poll Tax...

I thought the poll tax still went through. They just called it the council tax instead.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

If you did that during Poll Tax...

We'd have a fairer tax system !