[Albion] Hughton supporters

[GT49er]

So are you saying with a bigger budget he's suddenly going to play some expansive football?

We took quite a few teams to the cleaners in the Championship, partly due to having better players than many of the teams we played. Now the other teams generally have better players than we do - makes a bit of a difference, IMHO.

So, yes, a larger budget would lead towards more expansive football; not instantly - more incrementally, season by season.

 

[*Gullsworth*]

Name 3 better managers we've EVER had? I'll wait .....

By "thinking like a League One side" I take it you mean, ah but we can attract much better managers these days. Hmm, ask Man Utd how that's been going lately. And they can attract the very best, but they've had none since Fergie that I'd like to see replace CH, including their current guy.

As for the dreaming that we could be playing beautiful football higher up the League .... that comes down to TB. No-one is up there doing that with paying bigger transfer fees, and higher wages.

Maybe you are younger than me, and therefore don't remember, but much of what you say sends the words "Charlton Athletic" rushing through my brain. Or if that doesn't ring any bells, how about the old Aesop Fable of the animal with the fish in their mouth, but they think they see a bigger fish, in the water and go for that instead. But it's not a bigger fish, it was a reflection of the fish you had, but have now cast aside. Careful what you wish for my friend.

Love you Gritty. Exactly my sentiments.

 

[NooBHA]

How have you worked that out?

Getting to and staying in the PL is worth about £150m per year. That isn't being spent on transfer fees. Not yet anyhow

 

[Nixonator]

Billionaire if my sources are correct!

multi

 

[Mellotron]

Absolutely it does. Tony Bloom the gambler... (and the millionaire businessman).

Err definitely a billionaire. Multiple times over.

 

[Icy Gull]

Name 3 better managers we've EVER had? I'll wait .....

By "thinking like a League One side" I take it you mean, ah but we can attract much better managers these days. Hmm, ask Man Utd how that's been going lately. And they can attract the very best, but they've had none since Fergie that I'd like to see replace CH, including their current guy.

As for the dreaming that we could be playing beautiful football higher up the League .... that comes down to TB. No-one is up there doing that with paying bigger transfer fees, and higher wages.

Maybe you are younger than me, and therefore don't remember, but much of what you say sends the words "Charlton Athletic" rushing through my brain. Or if that doesn't ring any bells, how about the old Aesop Fable of the animal with the fish in their mouth, but they think they see a bigger fish, in the water and go for that instead. But it's not a bigger fish, it was a reflection of the fish you had, but have now cast aside. Careful what you wish for my friend.

Charlton had finished 6th in the Premier League the year before they hounded Curbishley out so it’s not really comparable to where the Albion are imo, so a bad example.

It seems that fans who hanker for anything better than we are currently seeing are automatically termed “entitled” and questioning whether CH is still the man for the job is just dismissed with a trite “be careful what you wish for”

I can see both sides of the argument for CH In or Out and let’s be honest nobody really knows how either will or would work out. After the last few months I have definitely moved into wanting something to change. If TB backs CH, and there’s no reason to think he won’t, then I imagine even he wants to see better over the coming months, or something will definitely change.

Yes, CH still has plenty of credit based on what he has achieved so far, so sacking him would indeed be harsh, but not necessarily a backwards step.

I keep seeing the “who would you replace him with” arguments, if we knew that we’d be highly paid members of a Premier League recruitment team. It’s not our job to find the replacements for managers or players. Does that mean we can’t have an opinion?

 

[Icy Gull]

Incorrect.

View attachment 108568

My apologies.

 

[Charlies Shinpad]

It's a fair point saying we have the third lowest budget in the league.
It's the budget we have spent on mediocre players that is the sticking point.
They haven't really impressed or improved the side
Or is it just CH and his tactical shackles that are holding these players back from the potential and form they were displaying before we signed them ??

Sent from my EML-L09 using Tapatalk

 

[El Presidente]

My apologies.

No worries dude. It's a common misconception that the Premier League is paved wtih gold for everyone..although for players, agents and executives (the Sunderland CEO who took centre stage in the Amazon Prime documentary and also took them to League One trousered £1.8 million last season) it is very lucrative.

 

[Mellotron]

Charlton had finished 6th in the Premier League the year before they hounded Curbishley out so it’s not really comparable to where the Albion are imo, so a bad example.

It seems that fans who hanker for anything better than we are currently seeing are automatically termed “entitled” and questioing whether CH is still the man for the job are just dismissed as “be careful what you wish for”

I can see both sides of the argument for CH In or Out and let’s be honest nobody really knows how either will or would work out. After the last few months I have definitely moved into wanting something to change. If TB backs CH, and there’s no reason to think he won’t, then I imagine even he wants to see better over the coming months, or something will definitely change.

Yes, CH still has plenty of credit based on what he has achieved so far, so sacking him would indeed be harsh, but not necessarily a backwards step.

I keep seeing the “who would you replace him with” arguments, if we knew that we’d be highly paid members of a Premier League recruitment team. It’s not our job to find the replacements for managers or players. Does that mean we can’t have an opinion?

Agree with this.

I too have slid ever so slightly towards Hughton Out over the past couple of months, but I'm almost on the fence. It is completely valid to think that it may be worthwhile to consider an alternative.

 

[Bladders]

We took quite a few teams to the cleaners in the Championship, partly due to having better players than many of the teams we played. Now the other teams generally have better players than we do - makes a bit of a difference, IMHO.

So, yes, a larger budget would lead towards more expansive football; not instantly - more incrementally, season by season.

Well obviously there will always be teams worse than us and those better than us, that's the same for the majority of clubs.

But there seems to be this myth floating around that if dare to try and attack a bit we'll get hammered 19-0.

 

[Icy Gull]

Well obviously there will always be teams worse than us and those better than us, that's the same for the majority of clubs.

But there seems to be this myth floating around that if dare to try and attack a bit we'll get hammered 19-0.

If we get 12 of those thrashings in a season it’s only going to potentially make a difference of a point over the whole season too

It’s not like we get many points from the top six anyway

In fairness it would be even less fun than six games without a shot on target though.

 

[Mellotron]

One of my biggest gripes is with the following viewpoint:

"Hughton tried attacking, it didn't work, so he went back to the tried and tested."

I'm sorry, did I miss the memo that confirmed there is only ONE way you can attack, with ONE approved formation? Bizarre stance to take - especially as the way we have tried to go more attacking has involved playing 3/4 players out of position.

 

[Nobby]

Can I just say that I was originally Hughton in, then Hughton out at half time on Saturday, then Hughton in at full time, then on the fence and now I’m not so sure.

 

[Gritt23]

Charlton had finished 6th in the Premier League the year before they hounded Curbishley out so it’s not really comparable to where the Albion are imo, so a bad example.

It seems that fans who hanker for anything better than we are currently seeing are automatically termed “entitled” and questioning whether CH is still the man for the job is just dismissed with a trite “be careful what you wish for”

I can see both sides of the argument for CH In or Out and let’s be honest nobody really knows how either will or would work out. After the last few months I have definitely moved into wanting something to change. If TB backs CH, and there’s no reason to think he won’t, then I imagine even he wants to see better over the coming months, or something will definitely change.

Yes, CH still has plenty of credit based on what he has achieved so far, so sacking him would indeed be harsh, but not necessarily a backwards step.

I keep seeing the “who would you replace him with” arguments, if we knew that we’d be highly paid members of a Premier League recruitment team. It’s not our job to find the replacements for managers or players. Does that mean we can’t have an opinion?

Of course you are entitled to an opinion, I don't think I've been saying otherwise. But in truth many of the phrases you've picked don't apply to me, so I think it's more general comments you make.

Reality is though, that finding a better replacement is not easy, very difficult in fact. Not expecting people of here to come up with names, because the "highly paid members of a Premier League recruitment team" do regularly PROVE how difficult this is.

I disagree that the Charlton example is a bad one, because the similarity is that Charlton fans got sick of the performances slipping after Christmas, and wanted to "kick on to the next level" not appreciating that without a significant injection of cash, they were already batting at the very top of their averages, and had a long way to fall if they get it wrong. Likewise we are surviving despite bottom end transfer fees and wage structures, but plenty have decided that's not enough, we want to survive playing better football. That doesn't happen by magic, just as Charlton pushing on for CL places wasn't going to happen by magic. We are the top end of where our funds have us competing, just as Charlton were.

I would suggest the odds are heavily against us replacing CH and finding that we are able to do any better on the same resources. Whereas the chances of it going wrong and we find ourselves back in the Championship is very significant indeed. There are only so many times we can operate financially in the bottom 5, and rarely see ourselves in the relegation zone.

The truth that a lot of people don't seem to like is that the Premier League is NOT the "greatest league in the World" it's actually shit. The top teams are far too good for most of us to compete with, far too many games have one team with 70%+ possession while the other teams clings on for their life behind a parked bus, and the greatest possible achievement for most is to become a team that lives out a life in mid-table obscurity. This is the promised land, apparently. Blame CH for this all you want, but sadly it;s the reality of the Premier League.

 

[GT49er]

Well obviously there will always be teams worse than us and those better than us, that's the same for the majority of clubs.

Yes, so the answer is if we had a bigger budget we'd have better players and could play more expansively.

 

[Nixonator]

One of my biggest gripes is with the following viewpoint:

"Hughton tried attacking, it didn't work, so he went back to the tried and tested."

I'm sorry, did I miss the memo that confirmed this is only ONE way you can attack, with ONE approved formation? Bizarre stance to take.

I think what they mean to say is, Hughton's attempt at trying a more attacking approach failed, so he reverted to type. Others will argue he doesn't have the necessary tools at his disposal to do so.

This debate will just keep going in circles. The one thing that is obvious to us all is that something needs to change.

CH is a decent manager and has done a lot for us, but is not beyond reproach. He seems to keenly lack improvisation which is common with managers who adopt a very rigid and disciplined system. He frequently has the same clear gameplan, and that plan does not seem to change if we concede once or twice, or score ourselves from set pieces usually. We will attack them and take the necessary risks (depending on scoreline) when they are tired and (hopefully) frustrated, he commonly did this in the Championship and our first season up. We changed it this season. It will cost money to give him the boot, funds which could be used elsewhere.

If we are going to continue with CH and back him, then we need to bloody well stump up some cash for some players who are proven at this level and are suited to the system he is comfortable with.

 

[Weststander]

So are you saying with a bigger budget he's suddenly going to play some expansive football?

Cant see it myself.

The crux of this is, what type of football did we play 2015/16 and 2016/17?

(a) I’d always thought it was a pacy counter attacking football, with multiple threats and an abundance of goals. I’d expect CH to resume with that to an extent, IF we can get a better first team.

(b) But it turns out, it genuinely passed me by at the time, that many NSC’ers thought CH played an unattractive, awful, defensive style of football in those two seasons, which bored many supporters to death. If that’s the case, then there’s no hope for CH.

 

[Weststander]

Getting to and staying in the PL is worth about £150m per year. That isn't being spent on transfer fees. Not yet anyhow

Isn’t the annual increment from being PL circa £105m? Of which a third to a half often disappears in increased payroll costs.

 

[rippleman]

It was changed at half time and we played better.

We certainly did.

So perhaps the question to be asked is why we didn't start Solly & Knocky and play in that formation from the start (Gross playing as a right winger? With his lack of pace. Really? When you have two wingers sat on the bench).

But it wasn't only the players and formation though, it was a change of intent. We played with pace, ran with the ball and closed Newcastle down.

For me it just showed that we can play a different way, and do so successfully. We have the players (although perhaps not the squad) to compete outside the top 6 playing attacking and high paced football.