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[Football] How to fix VAR ?



nickbrighton

Well-known member
Feb 19, 2016
1,918
Whats the point? About time the PMGOL commitee just announce the results ahead of games-save so much time and angst. A bit like the pools panel
 




Washie

Well-known member
Jun 20, 2011
5,470
Eastbourne
Ban the absolute ****s and actually punish them at ground level who decide to chase 14 year old refs off the park because they don't like the decision. Kids are now scared to be referees so the ones who don't care about being threatened or shouted at are the ones that think some of the geniune constructive criticism are just more people having a go and just ignore it. Its why we have less refs at grassroots and why refereeing standards are getting lower. The FA need to get a damn backbone and start either banning parents, or start putting incidents on DBS checks as if you're being aggressive towards 14 year olds, you shouldn't be allowed to work with children.
 


Yoda

English & European
As highlighted today by the commentators, they need someone that has played the game in there as well. Robbie Earle could see it wasn't a pen to them by the way Milner challenged Mudryk (planted his foot, and challenged via the upper body shoulder to shoulder way before any tangle of legs that occure at the same time Steele is getting to the ball), yet the twunts that have probably never kicked the ball, even at Amature level, thought otherwise.
 








Algernon

Well-known member
Sep 9, 2012
2,963
Newmarket.
Perhaps the on-field ref can be allowed a limited amount of monitor reviews.
Reviews should only be chosen by themselves, obvs when they're uncertain of their decision.
Team Captain only can talk to the ref to try to coerce them into taking a look however the Team Captain will know that only a certain amount of reviews will be allowed so it will stop them whinging about each and every incident.
The refs might look like a bit more human and willing to accept they can make (limited) mistakes.
 








Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
50,167
Goldstone
Perhaps the on-field ref can be allowed a limited amount of monitor reviews.

That doesn't fix the problem, it just potentially causes more.

Pundits and fans see the same footage the VAR officials see and we all think they're getting things wrong. I can't be bothered to debate which side is right, we know it's the officials who are wrong - so train them better (or sack them and get new ones) and we're good to go.
 


¡Cereal Killer!

Whale Oil Beef Hooked
Sep 13, 2003
10,197
Somewhere over there...
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In Greece today o_O

 
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Albion my Albion

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Feb 6, 2016
17,834
Indiana, USA
Must admit haven't followed the NFL for a while. When I did I thought the "flags" were a dull yellow, bit like duster.
Those are the referee's penalty flags which they toss on the field when an infraction is detected.

The "team wants a review" handkerchief is red and is thrown onto the field from a team sideline when a team demands a referee review a replay.
 




Kinky Gerbil

Im The Scatman
NSC Patron
Jul 16, 2003
57,886
hassocks
As highlighted today by the commentators, they need someone that has played the game in there as well. Robbie Earle could see it wasn't a pen to them by the way Milner challenged Mudryk (planted his foot, and challenged via the upper body shoulder to shoulder way before any tangle of legs that occure at the same time Steele is getting to the ball), yet the twunts that have probably never kicked the ball, even at Amature level, thought otherwise.

Yet other pros thought it was, there is the issue.
 


trueblue

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
10,378
Hove
The decisions today from the Chelsea pen to the end of the game were insulting to Brighton and any reasonable fan.

How on earth was the official called to the monitor to look at that, when it quite clearly hit him on the head. And then give a drop ball.

Whole thing stinks.
This is one of the biggest issues with VAR. The dramatic decline in standards of on-field officiating now they have the system to bail them out. From Pawson’s angle it may have looked like it hit the arm but the lino has no excuse. Right in line, 10 yards away, unobstructed view and does nothing. The thinking’s not as sharp as it was when there was no other option but to be really, really focussed. It’s a classic example of ‘too many cooks…” and the more they try to fix it, the worse it will get.
 


GT49er

Well-known member
Feb 1, 2009
46,715
Gloucester
Yet other pros thought it was, there is the issue.
No, that isn't the issue. Some ex-pros thought it was, some thought it wasn't. Therefore, whichever way the on-field ref. gave it wasn't a 'clear and obvious' error. Simply put, in those circumstances, VAR should have kept its nose out of it.

Maybe they need someone at Stockley Park, not of the PGMOL, to tell them what they should look at and what they shouldn't.
 




Kinky Gerbil

Im The Scatman
NSC Patron
Jul 16, 2003
57,886
hassocks
No, that isn't the issue. Some ex-pros thought it was, some thought it wasn't. Therefore, whichever way the on-field ref. gave it wasn't a 'clear and obvious' error. Simply put, in those circumstances, VAR should have kept its nose out of it.

Maybe they need someone at Stockley Park, not of the PGMOL, to tell them what they should look at and what they shouldn't.

It is very much the issue

it's a subjective call, ask 3 people who think it was a pen and it becomes clear and obvious.

Same applies to those looking at VAR, if all of them think yes it's a penalty, it's clear and obvious and the ref will be asked to look at it.

Subjective calls and marginal off sides are the issue with VAR.
 


Kinky Gerbil

Im The Scatman
NSC Patron
Jul 16, 2003
57,886
hassocks
On fixing it they should take it all away and work on it bit by bit

Goal line tech works, there has been a couple of tech failures but it works 99.9 percent of the time.

They should then work on off sides and perfect the process and how it works within the current laws

Only once that is at the required level they should move one to the next part.

Doing it all at once was an error.
 


Bry Nylon

Test your smoke alarm
Helpful Moderator
Jul 21, 2003
19,844
Playing snooker
Just let refs get back to managing the game in real time, as they see it, with no recourse to video etc. Errors and misjudgments made by players have a far bigger baring on the outcome of the match than any that might be made by the ref. VAR is fundamentally ruining everything that was so fantastic about football so I'm struggling to see how 'more VAR' or 'different VAR' will unpick the fragmented, forensic, confusing, and wholly unsatisfactory mess that football (at top flight level) is increasingly becoming.
 


Brovion

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 6, 2003
19,362
No, that isn't the issue. Some ex-pros thought it was, some thought it wasn't. Therefore, whichever way the on-field ref. gave it wasn't a 'clear and obvious' error. Simply put, in those circumstances, VAR should have kept its nose out of it.

Maybe they need someone at Stockley Park, not of the PGMOL, to tell them what they should look at and what they shouldn't.
Exactly. This thread is repeating itself now, but to re-state the problem with VAR (in it's current form) is nothing to do with the competence or otherwise of the officials (they're humans and thus will make mistakes), it's nothing to do with imaginary lines, it's nothing to do with time limits or challenges, it is simply the fact that at the moment it is being asked to do the impossible which is to adjudicate on subjective decisions. And, unlike the on-field ref, it is expected to get it right 100% of the time. Which it can't as it's impossible. Hence these constant discussions every Monday morning - and not just on here.
 




Nobby Cybergoat

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
6,966
What about this?

A ref can refer any decision to a panel, of say 15 people. They don't need to be top level refs, but need to pass some test to show they broadly understand the rules. They are more like magistrates than judges. I could apply to be one.

This panel also don't need to be watching the game. They are just on call if a ref needs them. They can be called on to judge from any game going on that day.

Crucially, this panel are working independently from each other. There is no group think. They get a minute for a decision and then have to press a button to select "pen", "no pen", "not offside etc".

Now if I'm on this panel and I make a decision which are right (which is evidenced by the fact that most of my colleagues agree with me), I gain points and get ever more prestigious games and more money. If I make a decision that most disagree with I lose points and don't earn anything. This will be rickety at first, but the better ones will rise to the top.

All feedback gratefully received :)
 


Bodian

Well-known member
May 3, 2012
11,801
Cumbria
This is one of the biggest issues with VAR. The dramatic decline in standards of on-field officiating now they have the system to bail them out. From Pawson’s angle it may have looked like it hit the arm but the lino has no excuse. Right in line, 10 yards away, unobstructed view and does nothing. The thinking’s not as sharp as it was when there was no other option but to be really, really focussed. It’s a classic example of ‘too many cooks…” and the more they try to fix it, the worse it will get.
Yes - if the lino had immediately said 'no ref - it hit his head', then the ref would have overruled himself immediately and we would almost certainly have had the corner kick.
 


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