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[Football] How to fix VAR ?



dazzer6666

Well-known member
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Mar 27, 2013
51,496
Burgess Hill
But what you describe is not what happens. The numptie says 'what do you think about this potential handball, O great on-field ref?', or simply decides that even though they think the referee's decision is wrong they won't ask them to check because the difference of opinion is not based on a clear and obvious error..

The only decisions called by VAR are offsides.
Yes, but the onfield ref is currently heavily influenced by VAR - you only need to look at the number of times the onfield ref has been called to the monitor and stuck with his initial call. It’s a miniscule percentage so if you think the VARs aren’t - practically at least - calling the decisions I think you’re mistaken. There needs to be a power shift. Last night appears to be a case in point - the VAR has now been stood down. The onfield ref, though, had the opportunity (and authority) to say ’thanks, yes, can see it bounce up onto his arm but I’m not giving that‘
 

Jeremiah

God is great
Mar 15, 2020
2,087
Hove
Keep goal line technology and get rid of everything else. Go back to refs and linos making howlers that we only find out about when we get home. Ah the good old days when you could celebrate a goal when you saw the ref point to the centre spot and the lino sprint back towards the halfway line.
 

dazzer6666

Well-known member
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Mar 27, 2013
51,496
Burgess Hill
THIS! There is NO technology apart from the goal decision system. It’s currently re-refereeing using just broadcast cameras for everything. Offside can be sorted (for elite, top level football) by dedicated cameras, sensors and real-time instantaneous reporting. The balance is a problem because clear and obvious is (currently) impossible to define or implement. The entire thing needs parking until the TECHNOLOGY and VAR rules and processes are drafted, agreed and then rigorously tested.
This pisses me off as well. Jim Gobshite was ranting on TS yesterday ‘is it time to bin the technology’. Its not technology, it‘s re-reffing by a similarly incompetent tit watching a few replays and having a possibly different subjective opinion.
 
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Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
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Oct 8, 2003
48,635
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Yes, but the onfield ref is currently heavily influenced by VAR - you only need to look at the number of times the onfield ref has been called to the monitor and stuck with his initial call. It’s a miniscule percentage so if you think the VARs aren’t - practically at least - calling the decisions I think you’re mistaken. There needs to be a power shift. Last night appears to be a case in point - the VAR has now been stood down. The onfield ref, though, had the opportunity (and authority) to say ’thanks, yes, can see it bounce up onto his arm but I’m not giving that‘

The fact that on field refs normally go with the VAR ref's advice is because it is usually correct. It has nothing to do with power. The power is all on the pitch (aside from offsides, as I noted earlier; all other decisions are made by the on pitch refs). Most of what we moan about, VAR-wise is the faffing delays, and when VAR fails to alert a ref about something they have missed.

There is an elephant in the room, however.

Far too many refs are wankers.

(That includes the refs on the pitch and the refs in VAR).

And as I have said a billion times, VAR is here to stay and calling for it to be binned is howling at the moon.
 

dazzer6666

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Mar 27, 2013
51,496
Burgess Hill
The fact that on field refs normally go with the VAR ref's advice is because it is usually correct. It has nothing to do with power. The power is all on the pitch (aside from offsides, as I noted earlier; all other decisions are made by the on pitch refs). Most of what we moan about, VAR-wise is the faffing delays, and when VAR fails to alert a ref about something they have missed.

There is an elephant in the room, however.

Far too many refs are wankers.

(That includes the refs on the pitch and the refs in VAR).

And as I have said a billion times, VAR is here to stay and calling for it to be binned is howling at the moon.
Well there were egregious examples of it not being correct yesterday and Monday (one VAR has been stood down, and the other has been admitted as an error). The power clearly isn’t on the pitch - it’s two guys having a matey chat about a subjective call half the time, and in 99.9% of cases the VAR view prevails.

Agree with you other statements though :laugh:
 
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Jeremiah

God is great
Mar 15, 2020
2,087
Hove
Most teams get some appalling VAR decisions given against them at some point in the season , however I can't remember any going against Man City ? Am I wrong ?
 

Cheshire Cat

The most curious thing..
People seem to forget that before VAR, everyone (possibly not actually every one, but innumerable pundits definitely) was moaning about poor refereeing and arguing in favour of video assisted technology to make better decisions - especially those decisions highlighted on the tellybox which were blatantly wrong (Geoff Hurst's second goal in 1966 for example).

VAR IN.
 

jcdenton08

Enemy of the People
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Oct 17, 2008
10,257
That PSG penalty last night was an absolute farce. Dreadful decision, never ever a handball. Appalling.

VAR is a complete disaster at this point
 


Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
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Oct 8, 2003
48,635
Faversham
Well there were egregious examples of it not being correct yesterday and Monday (one VAR has been stood down, and the other has been admitted as an error). The power clearly isn’t on the pitch - it’s rwo guys having a matey chat about a subjective call half the time, and in 99.9% of cases the VAR view prevails.

Agree with you other statements though :laugh:
Yes, yes. Egregious errors by tits.

Tweak the rules and train (or sack) the tits.

When I was stopped by two young PCs for driving through an amber light "which means stop, same as a red light, so you drove through a red light" the solution to this tomfoolery was to train the tits, not bin traffic lights. Other analogies are available :wink:
 

Kinky Gerbil

Im The Scatman
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Jul 16, 2003
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It’s obviously contagious.

still stand by my point that if you can’t operate VAR correctly then you aren’t fit to referee. If VAR has done anything it’s highlight just how shit referee’s are at the moment. VAR should be a piece of piss compared to refereeing a game.

and yes that was an awful decision.

If you are slowing things down and using still images as the process it's already flawed.

That's what the technology is allowing

The Automated offside is no better, the gala disallowed goal is a shambles.
 


Deportivo Seagull

I should coco
Jul 22, 2003
4,844
Mid Sussex
If you are slowing things down and using still images as the process it's already flawed.

That's what the technology is allowing

The Automated offside is no better, the gala disallowed goal is a shambles.
if you can’t get the decision right using multiple video replays then you’ve f*** all chance of getting it right in real time.
 

Brovion

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Jul 6, 2003
19,268
...

And as I have said a billion times, VAR is here to stay and calling for it to be binned is howling at the moon.
Yes. Hence that's why this thread is called 'How to fix VAR' rather than 'Should we scrap VAR?' Granted there are a few posts saying "Just bin it, that'll fix it", and whilst that is undoubtedly true as you say it's never going to happen. So I think most of us have tried to add our opinions for improvements. and there does seem to be a consensus that VAR is 'trying too hard' and trying to be God Almighty by interfering in everything. Less is more, and rather like fire VAR can be a great servant but it's certainly making a poor master. The authorities should trust the officials on the pitch more and let the game naturally flow rather than saying "We've got this great new toy and boy are we gonna use it at every opportunity."

And it's also true that the situation isn't helped by some of the modern rules/conventions surrounding handball and assistants flagging for offside. (I'm ignoring incompetent officials, both on and off the pitch, because until we get AI refs they're humans and there will always be mistakes).
 


Brovion

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Jul 6, 2003
19,268
People seem to forget that before VAR, everyone (possibly not actually every one, but innumerable pundits definitely) was moaning about poor refereeing and arguing in favour of video assisted technology to make better decisions - especially those decisions highlighted on the tellybox which were blatantly wrong (Geoff Hurst's second goal in 1966 for example).

VAR IN.
In case you hadn't noticed people are STILL moaning about poor refereeing and contentious decisions - only now they're moaning about the VAR refs. So in that respect VAR hasn't solved anything, merely shifted the point of contention.

But yes, technology has helped some decisions. As you say Geoff Hurst's 2nd goal in 1966 probably wouldn't be allowed today (And Lampard's goal in 2012 would have been). But that's down to goalline technology making yes/no decisions, nothing to do with VAR. I too remember the pre-VAR discussions with people saying "Wouldn't it be great if refs had video technology to enable them to make better decisions?" The answer was always "Yes, but how would you implement it?" That second question still hasn't been answered, hence this thread! :)
 
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Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
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Oct 8, 2003
48,635
Faversham
Yes. Hence that's why this thread is called 'How to fix VAR' rather than 'Should we scrap VAR?' Granted there are a few posts saying "Just bin it, that'll fix it", and whilst that is undoubtedly true as you say it's never going to happen. So I think most of us have tried to add our opinions for improvements. and there does seem to be a consensus that VAR is 'trying too hard' and trying to be God Almighty by interfering in everything. Less is more, and rather like fire VAR can be a great servant but it's certainly making a poor master. The authorities should trust the officials on the pitch more and let the game naturally flow rather than saying "We've got this great new toy and boy are we gonna use it at every opportunity."

And it's also true that the situation isn't helped by some of the modern rules/conventions surrounding handball and assistants flagging for offside. (I'm ignoring incompetent officials, both on and off the pitch, because until we get AI refs they're humans and there will always be mistakes).
Yes, which is why I am directing that comment towards the numerous respondents whose suggestion for fixing VAR is to scrap it. I am delighted with the constructive comments of the many. It seems to boil down to two camps, one that favours giving the on field ref more powers and fewer issues for VAR to consider, and the other (of which I am a member) who would like some laws tweaked (with regular review - for example a clear blue daylight rule for offside) and greater powers for VAR to intervene, and the power to decide, albeit with strict time limits (for example if VAR can't be certain within 20 or 30 seconds then it does not intervene, but if it sees a sending off offense, a penalty offense, or a mistake by the ref who has falsely given a pen, red card or even a bloody goal kick instead of a corner, and can do so in 20 or 30 sec or less) VAR should say 'change your decision ref'. Quick and certain. No dicking about with screens and lines and slomo replays.

But I will say it again, 'bin VAR' is not an option, and this is, as you rightly remind us all, part of the premise of the thread. :thumbsup:
 

dazzer6666

Well-known member
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Mar 27, 2013
51,496
Burgess Hill
Yes, which is why I am directing that comment towards the numerous respondents whose suggestion for fixing VAR is to scrap it. I am delighted with the constructive comments of the many. It seems to boil down to two camps, one that favours giving the on field ref more powers and fewer issues for VAR to consider, and the other (of which I am a member) who would like some laws tweaked (with regular review - for example a clear blue daylight rule for offside) and greater powers for VAR to intervene, and the power to decide, albeit with strict time limits (for example if VAR can't be certain within 20 or 30 seconds then it does not intervene, but if it sees a sending off offense, a penalty offense, or a mistake by the ref who has falsely given a pen, red card or even a bloody goal kick instead of a corner, and can do so in 20 or 30 sec or less) VAR should say 'change your decision ref'. Quick and certain. No dicking about with screens and lines and slomo replays.

But I will say it again, 'bin VAR' is not an option, and this is, as you rightly remind us all, part of the premise of the thread. :thumbsup:
It’s not two camps for me - it’s a combination of those two things. Offside - have a greater margin, they’re currently applying a stupid level of precision. Fouls/pens - VAR only to intervene when the ref has missed something blatantly obvious, or if the onfield ref asks VAR for an opinion/replay (do not give players the right to appeal). Handball - clarify the laws (or interpretation of them) once and for all. Finally, mike the refs/VAR up so we all know wtf is going on.
 

Cheshire Cat

The most curious thing..
Fans are the absolute worst judges of referees decisions because they have an innate bias towards their own team.

Therefore any mistake against us is howled down "I hate VAR"

Any mistake in favour of us is "phew, got away with that - I love VAR"

Maybe complaining fans should be sent off and removed from the stadium for dissent.
 


Cheshire Cat

The most curious thing..
It’s not two camps for me - it’s a combination of those two things. Offside - have a greater margin, they’re currently applying a stupid level of precision. Fouls/pens - VAR only to intervene when the ref has missed something blatantly obvious, or if the onfield ref asks VAR for an opinion/replay (do not give players the right to appeal). Handball - clarify the laws (or interpretation of them) once and for all. Finally, mike the refs/VAR up so we all know wtf is going on.
You are either over the line or you are not.

You can't have it both ways.
 

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