How long has Poyet got as manager at BHA?

[Triggaaar]

I completely agree, I've put my hands up and said I was wrong. But some people like to argue even when people have put their hands up.

Because you say you put your hands up and you were wrong, but then you argue that you weren't wrong. You say "it is my opinion that the tactics and formations weren't up to par." So Gus has only succeeded because he changed things about a bit, which is what you'd have told him to do if he was wise enough to ask.

"I never said he was a bad manager, I said we should consider alternatives."
If we were a top premiership team then I'd agree, as top teams can be choosy. Considering replacing Gus would have been (and still would) be madness.

"In the mean time, we've signed players like Dobbie. Was he really what we needed? I can understand that we needed something, but Dobbie was a huge flop. That IMO, was a mistake, as was Harley etc etc. they've costed us a large amount, and something we shouldn't condone or find excuses for"
Dobbie didn't work out for us, but he's had success at this level before, and we weren't to know he wouldn't work hard enough for the team. As it is, we're getting got our money back for him. But you think we shouldn't condone that Using language like what we should condone is ridiculous. We get the best manager we can, and let them do the job - if a better manager is available, then changing could be good, but it's naive to think Gus hasn't done a great job with the budget he's had, or that there are better managers available to us.

 

[JBizzle]

I completely agree, I've put my hands up and said I was wrong. But some people like to argue even when people have put their hands up.

No, fair play to you on that mate. I'm still awaiting Glenn-Murray coming on here and doing the same...

 

[GreersElbow]

Because you say you put your hands up and you were wrong, but then you argue that you weren't wrong. You say "it is my opinion that the tactics and formations weren't up to par." So Gus has only succeeded because he changed things about a bit, which is what you'd have told him to do if he was wise enough to ask.

"I never said he was a bad manager, I said we should consider alternatives."
If we were a top premiership team then I'd agree, as top teams can be choosy. Considering replacing Gus would have been (and still would) be madness.

"In the mean time, we've signed players like Dobbie. Was he really what we needed? I can understand that we needed something, but Dobbie was a huge flop. That IMO, was a mistake, as was Harley etc etc. they've costed us a large amount, and something we shouldn't condone or find excuses for"
Dobbie didn't work out for us, but he's had success at this level before, and we weren't to know he wouldn't work hard enough for the team. As it is, we're getting got our money back for him. But you think we shouldn't condone that Using language like what we should condone is ridiculous. We get the best manager we can, and let them do the job - if a better manager is available, then changing could be good, but it's naive to think Gus hasn't done a great job with the budget he's had, or that there are better managers available to us.

Jesus christ, I bet you're the type of fella who loves his own voice. It would have been wrong to have sacked him at the TIME OF THE WRITTEN POST. That's where I'm putting my hands up and saying I'm wrong.

"We get the best manager we can, and let them do the job - if a better manager is available, then changing could be good, but it's naive to think Gus hasn't done a great job with the budget he's had, or that there are better managers available to us." Argues that sacking him would be wrong, then states that if a better manager is available that could be good, brilliant! My point in that original post was that we should have been looking for better managers.

I know that we're getting our money back, but that doesn't negate the flop that he was. Did Dobbie ever get a good run in the team? Nope.
Did I ever say that all of Gus' signings been a waste of money? Nope, I have said, and quite possibly wrongly, that he can't be trusted with our budget. Now he's picked us up Upson and Ulloa, I can put my hands up and say I was wrong about that.

And again, I suggested looking for another manager should be a consideration. Not a definite sack him with no one lined up. And use of language, what are you honestly on about? fans should not condone panic buys, or wasting money. If the rumours were correct, he was our highest paid. I don't think we should be celebrating bringing in players like that, especially if he only made a handful of games. I'm not saying we should condemn it, but we certainly don't want to be complacent with the idea of repeating that.

Honestly, do you even know what you're arguing for or against? Because I don't understand what you're trying to achieve. Unless you get off arguing over the internet...

Anyway, we should always have an idea of a replacement. If Gus went to Reading, who should have we bought in? Or tried to. We should always have a list of readily available managers in the unlikely event Poyet walks or gets sacked.

No, fair play to you on that mate. I'm still awaiting Glenn-Murray coming on here and doing the same...

Thank you, at least you understand. I think triggaar on the other hand just enjoys arguing. I'm failing to see his over all point..

 

[W.C.]

Jesus christ, I bet you're the type of fella who loves his own voice.

Hello Mr Pot, have you met Mr Kettle?

 

[GreersElbow]

Hello Mr Pot, have you met Mr Kettle?

I'm only trying to defend myself here, otherwise I tend to keep the content of my posts as minimal as possible.

 

[Triggaaar]

Jesus christ, I bet you're the type of fella who loves his own voice.

Pot, kettle.

Argues that sacking him would be wrong, then states that if a better manager is available that could be good, brilliant! My point in that original post was that we should have been looking for better managers.

You don't change managers for the sake of it (unless you're a Blackburn or Wolves), it takes too long for them to get the players they want and set the team to play the style they want. But if you have the opportunity to have a better manager long term, then it makes sense to get them. But the reason I say it's ridiculous to consider getting rid of Gus (now or 6 months ago) is that there are no managers that are clearly better than him that would want to manage us. Anyone that's clearly better than Gus would be looking for a decent premier league side.

I know that we're getting our money back, but that doesn't negate the flop that he was. Did Dobbie ever get a good run in the team? Nope.
Did I ever say that all of Gus' signings been a waste of money? Nope

You just said "they've costed us a large amount, and something we shouldn't condone or find excuses for" - so yes, you have said they've been a waste of money.

And use of language, what are you honestly on about? fans should not condone panic buys, or wasting money.

- see, you've said his signings were a waste of money there too I think suggesting we shouldn't condone the signing of Dobbie is ridiculous.

I don't think we should be celebrating bringing in players like that, especially if he only made a handful of games. I'm not saying we should condemn it, but we certainly don't want to be complacent with the idea of repeating that.

If that's all you'd said, I'd have agreed. The signing didn't work. not all signings do work. But to not condone such mistakes is condemning it.

Honestly, do you even know what you're arguing for or against?

I'm arguing against people who start off thinking they know better than a good manager, who then, when the manager succeeds, half apologise while still maintaining that the managers "formations weren't up to par", and who are quite ready to repeat the nonsense the next time we have a few bad games (and we will, because all teams do).

Anyway, we should always have an idea of a replacement. If Gus went to Reading, who should have we bought in? Or tried to. We should always have a list of readily available managers in the unlikely event Poyet walks or gets sacked.

I agree, Tony & his team should always keep their eye on football should we suddenly need to find a new manager. And there's nothing wrong with fans watching the progress of other managers and saying things like 'I'd like him to manage us in the future' - but that's quite different to saying we think Gus should be given a few more months (for example).

I think triggaar on the other hand just enjoys arguing. I'm failing to see his over all point..

You don't seem that short of words yourself. I'm willing to argue, but I'm not doing so for the sake of it. I simply get fed up with people spouting crap all the time - like 'Barnes should never play for us again' (if he can help us get promoted, that's good by me).

 

[GreersElbow]

Pot, kettle.

Funny, I assume you're saying this due to W.C saying the same thing. I've already explained myself, I'm defending myself from someone who's just out to argue. Otherwise, all my other posts are minimalist as possible.

You don't change managers for the sake of it (unless you're a Blackburn or Wolves), it takes too long for them to get the players they want and set the team to play the style they want. But if you have the opportunity to have a better manager long term, then it makes sense to get them. But the reason I say it's ridiculous to consider getting rid of Gus (now or 6 months ago) is that there are no managers that are clearly better than him that would want to manage us. Anyone that's clearly better than Gus would be looking for a decent premier league side.

I never suggested we should change managers for the sake of it, I felt at the time that Poyet has reached his maximum with us. But I have said multiple times, I never said he should be sacked. I said considerations should be made for a replacement, and I stick by my comment. We should be prepared for any eventuality, what I put my hands up is to the fact I defended people who were calling for him to be replaced, I was wrong to defend that. But I still believe considerations should be made, obviously not by fans - but by the board as a rapid response to the unexpected.

You just said "they've costed us a large amount, and something we shouldn't condone or find excuses for" - so yes, you have said they've been a waste of money.

May want to re-read the original post, I said a few signings were a waste of money, not all of them. The post you quoted "Did I ever say that all of Gus' signings been a waste of money? Nope" Dobbie was, due to the fact we rarely played him. Things may have not worked out, but I assume that's more dressing room than on the pitch (although he wasn't great for us) he never got a proper run in, whereas Orlandi and Lopez at first were shakey and now play a pivotal role in our midfield. I stand by that, we shouldn't condone signings like that, we are lucky Palace wanted him (only because of Holloway). Otherwise we'd be stuck with him. Most of Poyet's signings have been great, Ulloa's a jewel, Upson is solid in defence. Orlandi, Bruno and Lopez have bought something flairtastic, (but as stated, took time) and I don't really understand why Dobbie wasn't given the chance for a run in the team. That is a waste of money, yes, we will recoup that in the sale but nonetheless, that was a big gamble. And I appreciate that some signings don't work, but this one doesn't make much sense to me.

- see, you've said his signings were a waste of money there too I think suggesting we shouldn't condone the signing of Dobbie is ridiculous.

Okay, that's fair. However, do you think it was a good move? ignoring the fact he's going to be at Palace next season, do you think Dobbie was a good signing and what would you have thought if we couldn't shift him?

I'm arguing against people who start off thinking they know better than a good manager, who then, when the manager succeeds, half apologise while still maintaining that the managers "formations weren't up to par", and who are quite ready to repeat the nonsense the next time we have a few bad games (and we will, because all teams do).

Okay, so where's the other arguments then? Or is it because I've responded? I refused to be bullied out of an opinion. I understand all teams go through a bad patch, but it's what's going on through that bad patch., what's being done to try and correct the problems. I didn't see that happening, and that all changed in January with the new signings. Which by the way, have been tremendous value for money and 2 great assets to our first team.

I agree, Tony & his team should always keep their eye on football should we suddenly need to find a new manager. And there's nothing wrong with fans watching the progress of other managers and saying things like 'I'd like him to manage us in the future' - but that's quite different to saying we think Gus should be given a few more months (for example).

I know you suggested that as an example, however, I only meant for the consideration of managers. Unlikely, but I wouldn't mind us having a poach for RDM had Poyet gone to Reading. Lists like that would be handy if RDM isn't managing soon. Who knows, maybe Chelsea does go in for Poyet if we stayed up in our first season in the Prem. I think we'd be a great project given our resources. Of course that's hypothetical, and relatively unrealistic.

You don't seem that short of words yourself. I'm willing to argue, but I'm not doing so for the sake of it. I simply get fed up with people spouting crap all the time - like 'Barnes should never play for us again' (if he can help us get promoted, that's good by me).

I'm only defending myself, my posts in general are never this large. I try to keep them as minimal as possible. However, I appreciate you being fed up - but this is a message board, and we live in a democracy, expect such crap to be spouted. You are within your right to question me, but to suggest I shouldn't be allowed to have this opinion...well, sort of sounds like Mustafa's dream paradise that is North Korea.

Just for the record, I'm not anti-Barnes, I think he's progressing well under us and gets considerably flak for nothing despite working hard and scores a fair few goals.

Otherwise, I tend to try and keep a low profile.

 

[SeagullSongs]

 

[GingerBeerMan]

Yes, because it's the sought of stupid thing you'd say too.

sought?

 

[Triggaaar]

Funny, I assume you're saying this due to W.C saying the same thing. I've already explained myself, I'm defending myself from someone who's just out to argue.

No, I wrote it before reading the other post. And I've explained the reasons I disagree with you (that I'm not just out to argue).

Okay, that's fair. However, do you think it was a good move? ignoring the fact he's going to be at Palace next season, do you think Dobbie was a good signing and what would you have thought if we couldn't shift him?

With hindsight, I would say that signing Dobbie was a mistake. If he goes to Palace for what we paid, the mistake hasn't cost us much money. But at the time I thought it was a good signing (someone who won promotion at the top to help up front). I take it as read that not all signings will work, and I don't think we need to get overly worked up about those mistakes (or suggest we won't condone them).

Okay, so where's the other arguments then? Or is it because I've responded? I refused to be bullied out of an opinion.

I don't know what you mean by other arguments. I argue with everyone here that posts knee-jerk negative reactions about our players/managers (eg, against Lopez, Barnes, CMS etc). You don't need to feel bullied, I'm sure plenty of people agree with your negative opinions, and certainly many will agree that I'm out for an argument. I explained why I argue with posts like yours.

I understand all teams go through a bad patch, but it's what's going on through that bad patch., what's being done to try and correct the problems. I didn't see that happening

I didn't see the games in the way you did, and didn't think the problem was Gus.

I know you suggested that as an example, however, I only meant for the consideration of managers. Unlikely, but I wouldn't mind us having a poach for RDM had Poyet gone to Reading. Lists like that would be handy if RDM isn't managing soon. Who knows, maybe Chelsea does go in for Poyet if we stayed up in our first season in the Prem. I think we'd be a great project given our resources. Of course that's hypothetical, and relatively unrealistic.

Can't see the problem with that.

I appreciate you being fed up - but this is a message board, and we live in a democracy, expect such crap to be spouted. You are within your right to question me, but to suggest I shouldn't be allowed to have this opinion...well, sort of sounds like Mustafa's dream paradise that is North Korea.

Indeed, people will post their opinions and I'll post mine. I don't think I said you have no right to your opinion , but being as opinionated as I am, I'm quite prepared to try and belittle it

sought?

Perhaps I should have written 'sort' when telling someone they're stupid

 

[Icy Gull]

Our main problem until Ulloa arrived was that we looked lightweight upfront and seldom looked like scoring more than one goal. When we did score we sat back on it most games from my memory and the last 20 mins of games we were winning was tense in the extreme, often followed by a late goal from the opposition.

Whilst I applaud, in retrospect,Gus's unwillingness to sign just anybody some of this season has been incredibly frustrating to watch. We dominated but couldn't kill a game off. I never called for Gus head but I did have doubts about him. These have been blown away with the signing of Ulloa and Upson and the last couple of months have been fantastic in the main.

There have been quite few knee jerk reactions during barren and losing spells but is there anybody on here who can say, hand on heart, that they haven't had some doubts about Gus at times this season? You're a better judge of a football manager than me in that case

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

There have been quite few knee jerk reactions during barren and losing spells but is there anybody on here who can say, hand on heart, that they haven't had some doubts about Gus at times this season? You're a better judge of a football manager than me in that case

Honestly, I have not had a single doubt about him at any point this season. That's the god honest truth.

I'm naturally optimistic for any of our managers and will always look for the positive, but I just couldn't see ANY reason at ANY point to doubt him. We are one of the only clubs in the country to have a style of play associated with them. I LOVE that. I LOVE watching the players attempt to pass. I love everything he has brought to this club.

You're never going to agree with EVERY thing a manager does. Some Man Utd fans won't agree with SIRALEX at points, but there's a difference between doubting a manager and not agreeing with a team selection.

 

[Icy Gull]

, but there's a difference between doubting a manager and not agreeing with a team selection.

True and there's a world of difference in having doubts and calling for his head too

 

[Albumen]

There are quite a few on this thread that a being very quiet at the moment. Long may it continue.

 

[Triggaaar]

is there anybody on here who can say, hand on heart, that they haven't had some doubts about Gus at times this season? You're a better judge of a football manager than me in that case

I'm certainly not suggesting it's down to being a better judge of manager - at the start of the season I was hoping Palace kept Dougie (they had lost 3 games and I hadn't seen any of them), and I thought Palace did well getting in Holloway, so I got those two wrong - but no doubt I'm am less keen to ditch managers than most fans - but no, I haven't had doubts about Gus.

We did fairly well up until the end of last season, and made some excellent improvements over the summer, so I thought (or is that hoped) we'd be roughly where we are, but if we weren't I'd be quite realistic about the amount we have spent compared to our rivals. Other threads have posted the wage bills for Championship clubs for 2010/11 and 2011/12, and our wage bill is small by comparison, so I give a lot of credit to the management team for getting as high as they do. If we'd finished 8th this season I'd be fairly philosophical about it given our budget.

Yes I've been frustrated watching us fail to break teams down, fail to win from behind, but even when doing badly I've seen improvements - at the end of last season we had the odd game with about zero shots. Our worst period this season was December: Palace I put down to Dunk and the officials, the Watford game was horrendous (we just shouldn't have been so high up the pitch when chasing the game), but a couple of days later we stuffed Ipswich, and then Newcastle, and then Derby.

But I suppose it comes down to this: if you were getting rid of Gus, who would you bring in to replace him (someone who's excellent that would want to be with Brighton for a few years)?

 

[LamieRobertson]

What's happened to Pork pie and Kevtherev..regular critics of Poyet

 

[Charles 'Charley' Charles]

There have been quite few knee jerk reactions during barren and losing spells but is there anybody on here who can say, hand on heart, that they haven't had some doubts about Gus at times this season? You're a better judge of a football manager than me in that case

I can honestly say I've never had doubts about Gus this season or last for that matter. What I will say and admit to is when it was all kicking off about Gus going to Reading I wasn't paniced, upset or losing sleep. I have the utmost confidence in Mr Bloom with all things Brighton, and am sure he would of appointed the right man for the job if it had come to that. Knee jerk reactions don't really help anyone, look how close Fergie was to getting the sack.

 

[Brok]

Yep, but sadly he's got company.
Very, but if we don't go up (and we probably won't, as there'll be 4 teams fighting for 1 place), will you be back to say the same crap next season when a few games don't go our way?

We only have to beat two of them.

 

[Triggaaar]

We only have to beat two of them.

So? Still 4 teams fighting for 1 place, so we have a 1 in 4 chance.

 

[TSB]

Yes, because it's the sought of stupid thing you'd say too.

Spelling aside, concur. This season has been hell on here for absolute tools spitting their bile at various players, the manager, Barber, other fans et al.
Absolutely sick of it and delighted that they're being shown up for the cretinous little maggots that they are.