Happy now, Sven bashers?

[Chesney Christ]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Glad we've got an ENGLISHMAN in charge then?

[B Scolari was so desparate to take the job that he publicly sent the FA packing on the next flight. Really wanted the job didn't he.

[/B]

No, its because they asked him while he was still under contract at Portugal and he wanted to honour that. He said so himself. Do your research.

 

[Tooting Gull]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Glad we've got an ENGLISHMAN in charge then?

No, its because they asked him while he was still under contract at Portugal and he wanted to honour that. He said so himself. Do your research.

I don't think anyone's taking you too seriously after your initial post, that anyone who doesn't agree with your view is a xenophobic racist bigot.

There probably have been more idiotic things posted on here - just can't think of too many right now.

 

[Chesney Christ]

I don't dispute the fact that O'Neill wanted the job or that he's a better manager. I'd have LOVED him to get the job.

What I'm disputing is that he turned up at to an interview and Barwick said something along the lines of 'great CV Paddy - unfortunatley given that you're a bogtrotter and both NSC and The Sun say we need an Englishman you're out'.

It's that sort of lazy p.c. conspiracy theory that stokes the fires of real bigots.

I didn't say that at all. I said that most of this country wanted an Englishman in charge because ONE foreign manager did a bad job, and that those people are idiots. I still believe that public pressure affected (in some small part) the FA's decision. A bit like saying that The Albion should never employ a left-handed manager again because Jeff Wood was left-handed. Total nonsense.

 

[Scoffers]

Yes, I am happy now thanks. If we lose, then fair enough, it's an England team, with an English Manager, and that is the way it should be.

 

[Chesney Christ]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Glad we've got an ENGLISHMAN in charge then?

I don't think anyone's taking you too seriously after your initial post, that anyone who doesn't agree with your view is a xenophobic racist bigot.

I didn't say that. But there are SOME people in this country who have a fundamental problem with the idea of an England manager being foreign, and I think that reflects a level of jingoism and xenophobia in SOME of those people. Not all, but SOME.

 

[keaton]

Yes, I am happy now thanks. If we lose, then fair enough, it's an England team, with an English Manager, and that is the way it should be.

sake

 

[Guinness Boy]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Glad we've got an ENGLISHMAN in charge then?

I didn't say that. But there are SOME people in this country who have a fundamental problem with the idea of an England manager being foreign, and I think that reflects a level of jingoism and xenophobia in SOME of those people. Not all, but SOME.

Which is a fair enough observation but not even close to the original post that you made.

However out of interest I happen to think that in the ideal situation the best candidate for the job would be English. One of the reasons for the malaise in the current side is that English coaches and players are not getting opportunities in the game - hence the current weak squad of England players and second rate English national team coach applicants.

I mean it's not like we're some sort of footballing backwater with a new or non-existant league that desparately needs foreign help. We invented the game. And yet we had a situation at the end of last season where an English club got to the Champioins League final and represented their country by fielding not one English player in their starting 11. And then people are surprised we lose 2-0 away to Croatia?

The FA and clubs need to address this asap. Yes it's all very lovely, cosmopolitan and multi-cultral in the Premier league but it's utterly to the detriment of the national side.

Edit - I realise that in all reality the FA and clubs can't sort it out immediately without breaching European law BTW but a long term solution to the development of native players and coaches is a must.

 

[Scoffers]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Glad we've got an ENGLISHMAN in charge then?

Which is a fair enough observation but not even close to the original post that you made.

However out of interest I happen to think that in the ideal situation the best candidate for the job would be English. One of the reasons for the malaise in the current side is that English coaches and players are not getting opportunities in the game - hence the current weak squad of England players and second rate English national team coach applicants.

I mean it's not like we're some sort of footballing backwater with a new or non-existant league that desparately needs foreign help. We invented the game. And yet we had a situation at the end of last season where an English club got to the Champioins League final and represented their country by fielding not one English player in their starting 11. And then people are surprised we lose 2-0 away to Croatia?

The FA and clubs need to address this asap. Yes it's all very lovely, cosmopolitan and multi-cultral in the Premier league but it's utterly to the detriment of the national side.

Edit - I realise that in all reality the FA and clubs can't sort it out immediately without breaching European law BTW but a long term solution to the development of native players and coaches is a must.

What he said

 

[keaton]

I'm sorry you can't try and honestly debate things like xenophobia and then use the phrase "we invented the game"

 

[Guinness Boy]

I'm sorry you can't try and honestly debate things like xenophobia and then use the phrase "we invented the game"

I'm sorry - we invented the game in it's modern form. The first ever football association was formed in England which is why it's allowed to be called just the FA and not the EFA. FACT.

The contrast is against somewhere with a developing league and association such as many of the teams in Asia who need to bring in foreign coaches and players in order to mentor their own natives. In 10 years time this same debate will be being held in South Korea and Qatar I'm quite sure .

Why do so many people confuse patriotism with xenophobia?

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

The "Venables" factor doesn't seem to be working either

 

[dwayne]

Carried? You're an idiot.

What a load of nonsense. Ferdinand is one of the "star players" at United, and is the lynchpin of the defence. Hardly carried. Lampard and Terry are the first names on the team sheet for Chelsea every week without fail, despite all the international stars there.

Ashley Cole may be a "****" but is still one of the best left-backs in the world.

Well I'm pretty sure I've seen Chelsea more times than you this season.

Ask pretty much any Chelsea fan and they would say the same thing, Lampard is NOT the player he was 12 months ago, I believe he was punching above his weight before and has finally been found out...it won't be long before he is dropped for Chelsea.

For some unkown reason, Terry is heralded as some kind of messiah, when time and time again he makes mistakes in the top games (Barcelona twice last season).

If Terry and Ferdinand are such great players why do they look so rubbish when they play together?

 

[Scoffers]

Why do so many people confuse patriotism with xenophobia?

Because they shoot from the hip rather than actually thinking about it

 

[Man of Harveys]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Glad we've got an ENGLISHMAN in charge then?

Which is a fair enough observation but not even close to the original post that you made.

However out of interest I happen to think that in the ideal situation the best candidate for the job would be English. One of the reasons for the malaise in the current side is that English coaches and players are not getting opportunities in the game - hence the current weak squad of England players and second rate English national team coach applicants.

I mean it's not like we're some sort of footballing backwater with a new or non-existant league that desparately needs foreign help. We invented the game. And yet we had a situation at the end of last season where an English club got to the Champioins League final and represented their country by fielding not one English player in their starting 11. And then people are surprised we lose 2-0 away to Croatia?

The FA and clubs need to address this asap. Yes it's all very lovely, cosmopolitan and multi-cultral in the Premier league but it's utterly to the detriment of the national side.

Edit - I realise that in all reality the FA and clubs can't sort it out immediately without breaching European law BTW but a long term solution to the development of native players and coaches is a must.

But that's all totally hypothetical. All the time Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Bolton fans are all happy to watch their sides decent foreign players rather than mediocre English ones, those are the parameters within which you're operating. There may be more in England because the money's better but thank Sky for that. Besides, there are also plenty of foreign players in the league of world cup finalists France or semi-finalists Germany, for example.

So I'd say you can carry on saying there are too many foreigners in the English game and blaming that, whereas the real choice is between between a good coach who may not be English and the best coach England can manage but who may not be good enough.

 

[Pavilionaire]

To return to the original subject of the thread, there is no doubt in my mind Sven had to go, as his shortcomings were all too apparent.

Yet there is obviously a problem with this group of players and the culture within the England squad. It's not just a succession of managers that have failed to get the best out of the team, but both Beckham and now Terry have failed to make a difference as captain.

Clearly our squad is a lot weaker than we have been led to believe, and the fact they lead showbiz lifestyles doesn't help. Just look at the way Rooney and Ashley Cole have turned shit for England just as they start appearing regularly in Hello / OK with WAGs in tow.

The only way we will play well is by employing a 4-4-2 system and starting the likes of Lennon, Joe Cole, Hargreaves and Ledley King who actually appear to give a shit.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Glad we've got an ENGLISHMAN in charge then?

But that's all totally hypothetical. All the time Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Bolton fans are all happy to watch their sides decent foreign players rather than mediocre English ones, those are the parameters within which you're operating.

And there's the real paradox. All the time they have their club shirts on their greatest wish is to win every competition (probably taking them to 70+ games a season) and not caring if it takes 11 Argentinians to do so. However, put exactly the same people in to an England shirt and they start to moan about the players playing too much football and the squad being paper thin.

You can't have your cake and eat it.

 

[Uncle Buck]

Whilst being held in the ground last night, the England fans saw the players leaving the ground, cue 'your not fit to wear that shirt' and Rooney giving the stand the one finger salute.

McLaren got it wrong last night, wrong game to be changing the system. Yes we have injuries, but the wrong game to make fundamental changes. Also Crouch and Rooney hog the same space, one needs to be in front of the other, Lampard needs shooting and Terry, well he is still prone to errors. However if everyone is fit and selected, England can still put out a side amongst the best in Europe, something along the lines of;

Robinson
G Neville
A Cole
Ferdinand
Woodgate
Beckham
Hargreaves
Gerrard
J Cole
Rooney
Owen

 

[Sid James]

Whilst being held in the ground last night, the England fans saw the players leaving the ground, cue 'your not fit to wear that shirt' and Rooney giving the stand the one finger salute.

McLaren got it wrong last night, wrong game to be changing the system. Yes we have injuries, but the wrong game to make fundamental changes. Also Crouch and Rooney hog the same space, one needs to be in front of the other, Lampard needs shooting and Terry, well he is still prone to errors. However if everyone is fit and selected, England can still put out a side amongst the best in Europe, something along the lines of;

Robinson
G Neville
A Cole
Ferdinand
Woodgate
Beckham
Hargreaves
Gerrard
J Cole
Rooney
Owen

It is a very good team, but what are the chances of that team ever taking the field.

The loss of Owen is a huge factor in Rooney's lack of spark for England.

 

[Man of Harveys]

Whilst being held in the ground last night, the England fans saw the players leaving the ground, cue 'your not fit to wear that shirt' and Rooney giving the stand the one finger salute.

He's a class act, isn't he? It's not like those people pay his wages or anything. Christ almighty, what a stupid fat yob Rooney is.

 

[Uncle Buck]

It is a very good team, but what are the chances of that team ever taking the field.

The loss of Owen is a huge factor in Rooney's lack of spark for England.

So maybe take a look at Johnson for Crouch in Holland?

If that team could get a few games together I think things would improve.