[News] Hamas/Gaza/Israel

[Zeberdi]

Spent enough time on this thread? Is there a level you must reach to have an opinion? My comments weren't aimed at this thread in particular, you needn't be so protective.

I think I've probably spent too much time on it btw!

I think probably you were being a little over protective with your X link. My suggesting that you hadn’t spent enough tim on this thread was a JOKE that is what the laughter emoji was for. I was making a satirical point that the views on this thread were very much the opposite to apathetic or resting in the ‘hope Starmar was the Saviour’ - they have been impossibly polarised at times and very heated. Which actually isn’t a good thing either so no reason why I should feel ‘protective’ and certainly wasn’t suggesting you post more if you want you opinions to be more valid. That would be utterly ridiculous.

The X post is of an extremist making some valid points but an extremist all the same - I don’t feel comfortable with that - and as I said I thought his delivery was contrived - presumably to infuence American students.

It is entirely possible to be very much off the fence without resorting to extremism.

 

[armchairclubber]

I think probably you were being a little over protective with your X link. My suggesting that you hadn’t spent enough tim on this thread was a JOKE that is what the laughter emoji was for. I was making a satirical point that the views on this thread were very much the opposite to apathetic or resting in the ‘hope Starmar was the Saviour’ - they have been impossibly polarised at times and very heated. Which actually isn’t a good thing either so no reason why I should feel ‘protective’ and certainly wasn’t suggesting you post more if you want you opinions to be more valid. That would be utterly ridiculous.

The X post is of an extremist making some valid points but an extremist all the same - I don’t feel comfortable with that - and as I said I thought his delivery was contrived - presumably to infuence American students.

I realised you were talking about the public’s response generally. (Although I would have to disagree with you on that tbh - I think the student demonstrations and those over here, the dialogue amongst young people etc has been very much pro-actively supporting Palestinians.)

It is entirely possible to be very much off the fence without resorting to extremism.

Ah! The emoji was placed elsewhere I thought it related to the second "Starmer" part

 

[Zeberdi]

@aolstudios - not sure why you keep responding to my posts with a ’wow’ - I’ve not said any thing that isn’t factually true or controversial so are you just being a WUM with your use of emojis again and trying to derail the thread?

As per the X above:

• Hamas invaded Israel’s territory on 7 October
• Hamas are now fighting the Israeli which represents an occupying power in Gaza and the West Bank ( the only way you would ‘wow’ that is if you fail to recognise that Gaza does not belong to Israel btw)
• Children have died of starvation in this war
• The IDF have kept Gazans in what is effectively an open prison since the 6 day war when Israel invaded Egypt and Gaza and have since controlled the population of Gaza by sea and land and now by air.

 

[Zeberdi]

BBC finds evidence that Israel committed a war crime in the killing of two Palestinian boys in the West Bank last year - the youngest, 8 year old Adam, was ‘a football fanatic and massive Lionel Messi fan’.

West Bank: Israel Defense Forces accused of possible war crime

UN expert says death of 8-year-old appears to violate law after reviewing evidence gathered by BBC.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[rippleman]

Concerning and yet totally unsurprising that the "Land of the Free" has now arrested hundreds of students for having the audacity to criticise and protest the actions of the extreme right-wing State of Israel's slaughter of countless thousands of innocent Palestinians in Gaza.

It's the kind of thing you expect from the likes of Russia and China but not from "the leader of the western world". And dear old sleepy Joe has done SFA to stop it. Criticise Israel = get banged up. What a shitshow.

 

[armchairclubber]

Meanwhile, when some British journalists try to do their jobs with any kind of integrity - they are seemingly relieved of their positions. Odd that.

Sangita Myska is replaced by Vanessa Feltz on LBC.

 

[Zeberdi]

Sangita Myska is replaced by Vanessa Feltz on LBC.

It’s a thing:

A Canadian journalist (of Palestinian origin) fired from Global News stated that:

“… I opposed the [Russian] occupation of Ukraine, and no one told me that these posts were unbalanced, biased or prejudiced. However, when I expressed my opposition to Israel’s occupation of my homeland, Palestine, suddenly I became ‘biased’, and some Western media organisations claimed that I threatened the principles they adopted. So, I can say that I oppose the occupation of Ukraine, but I cannot speak about the Israeli occupation [of Palestine].”

A social media user responding to the BBC after it apologised for characterising the pro-Palestinian marches as ’backing Hamas’:

“I’ve made a formal complaint to BBC News for this misrepresentation and propaganda and I’d suggest others to do likewise …(T)he suggestion that those that support an end to the siege of Gaza are pro-Hamas is way beyond acceptable.”

Aljazera reported that HR advocates suggest:

‘…(T)hat corporate media’s emphasis on whether Palestinian advocates condemn Hamas — rather than on their demands for an end to Israel’s violent settler-colonialism — is “a strategic move designed to delegitimize the broader struggle for freedom in Palestine.”’


There’s a Culture of fear in many Western Newsrooms:

Six BBC reporters taken off the air for ‘liking’ X Pro-Palestinian posts

Six BBC Reporters Taken Off Air for Liking, Posting Pro-Palestine Tweets

“As Palestinians lose their lives, Western media loses the last shreds of its credibility,” one observer said.

truthout.org

Watching the watchdogs: Fear in newsrooms silences pro-Palestine voices

Sidelining of journalists and pro-Palestinian analysts is increasing as Israel tries to dominate the media narrative.

www.aljazeera.com

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20231108-canadian-journalist-fired-over-pro-palestine-posts-speaks-out/

In Gaza, journalists continue to be permanently ‘silenced’ for reporting ‘the truth’

Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war - Committee to Protect Journalists

Editor’s notes: The list below is CPJ’s most recent and preliminary account of journalist deaths in the war. Our database will not include all of these casualties until we have completed further investigations into the circumstances surrounding them. For more information, read our FAQ. The...

cpj.org

 

[armchairclubber]

It’s a thing:

A Canadian journalist (of Palestinian origin) fired from Global News stated that:

“… I opposed the [Russian] occupation of Ukraine, and no one told me that these posts were unbalanced, biased or prejudiced. However, when I expressed my opposition to Israel’s occupation of my homeland, Palestine, suddenly I became ‘biased’, and some Western media organisations claimed that I threatened the principles they adopted. So, I can say that I oppose the occupation of Ukraine, but I cannot speak about the Israeli occupation [of Palestine].”

A social media user responding to the BBC after it apologised for characterising the pro-Palestinian marches as ’backing Hamas’:

“I’ve made a formal complaint to BBC News for this misrepresentation and propaganda and I’d suggest others to do likewise …(T)he suggestion that those that support an end to the siege of Gaza are pro-Hamas is way beyond acceptable.”

Aljazera reported that HR advocates suggest:

‘…(T)hat corporate media’s emphasis on whether Palestinian advocates condemn Hamas — rather than on their demands for an end to Israel’s violent settler-colonialism — is “a strategic move designed to delegitimize the broader struggle for freedom in Palestine.”’


There’s a Culture of fear in many Western Newsrooms:

Six BBC reporters taken off the air for ‘liking’ X Pro-Palestinian posts

Six BBC Reporters Taken Off Air for Liking, Posting Pro-Palestine Tweets

“As Palestinians lose their lives, Western media loses the last shreds of its credibility,” one observer said.

truthout.org

Watching the watchdogs: Fear in newsrooms silences pro-Palestine voices

Sidelining of journalists and pro-Palestinian analysts is increasing as Israel tries to dominate the media narrative.

www.aljazeera.com

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20231108-canadian-journalist-fired-over-pro-palestine-posts-speaks-out/

In Gaza, journalists continue to be permanently ‘silenced’ for reporting ‘the truth’

Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war - Committee to Protect Journalists

Editor’s notes: The list below is CPJ’s most recent and preliminary account of journalist deaths in the war. Our database will not include all of these casualties until we have completed further investigations into the circumstances surrounding them. For more information, read our FAQ. The...

cpj.org

Your post highlights what every politician in this country should be highlighting. A free and truth presenting press is obviously of paramount importance to any nation wishing to call itself a democracy.

You'll forgive me for not giving too much attention to the utterings of Sunak & Starmer (my head cant take it), though unfortunately the above also appears to suit the agenda of both the Tories and Labour front bench (who more concern themselves with competing of who can stand in front of the most Union Jack's and tanks and pledge more weapons globally)

I'd welcome any info of either front bench calling and demanding an end of the propoganda you highlight, but I think you'll find the list of MPs on the page below falls pretty short.

https://edm.parliament.uk/early-day-motion/61769/journalists-in-gaza

 

[borat]

On the same theme Bella Donati from Sky News has seems to have disappeared after her interview with an Israeli politician.

 

[armchairclubber]

Btw having received this notice

"Whilst we are passed the point where LBC are likely to reinstate Sangita, the petition will remain active to demonstrate to LBC Management how popular she is and that we, the listeners, miss her.

the petition still exists

Sign the Petition

Reinstate Sangita Myska to her Position at LBC

www.change.org

 

[A1X]

 

[armchairclubber]

When you see the daily videos and photos of horrific injuries and multiple amputations to Gazan children, leading to a life of suffering with limited medical aid, it can almost make you think this poor girl was one of the lucky ones. May she rest peacefully.

 

[herecomesaregular]

I met several groups of Israelis who were trekking in the Himalayas after their 2 year army service (surprisingly lazy barstewards had porters), rowed out in a boat with a couple of girls at the lake at Pokhara, also met more when backpacking around Australia/NZ. This was 25 years ago. All nice people, a bit withdrawn and kept themselves to themselves in their travelling groups, all wanting to travel after their army service. Recent events in the region has meant I recently think of them again and strange to think that 20 years later their equivalents, whom i would have thought as normal people just doing their compulsory army service, are repeatedly murdering young child and innocents by sniper fire etc. Countless and countless examples it seems. .... not sure what my point is, other than sadness and what a tragic state of affairs.

 

[Zeberdi]

I'd welcome any info of either front bench calling and demanding an end of the propoganda you highlight, but I think you'll find the list of MPs on the page below falls pretty short.

https://edm.parliament.uk/early-day-motion/61769/journalists-in-gaza

I bet there will be a lot of MPs (especially in the Labour Party who won’t sign an EDM that is co-sponsored by Jeremy Corbyn and has Grahame Morris as it’s primary) - Morris is the trustee of Palestinian Deep Dive (which aims to give Palestinians a voice in Western media) and is a Corbynite on the left of the Party

https://www.palestinedeepdive.com/

A very important article here by Sky War Correspondent taking Sunak to task, Alex Crawford who IMO is one of the best war correspondents of our generation

Alex Crawford slams Govt's 'empty' press freedom promises 'without action' on Gaza access

Alex Crawford has called a press freedom speech given by the prime minister as “empty words” over the ban on journalists entering Gaza.

pressgazette.co.uk

 

[armchairclubber]

Holborn & St Pancras would do well to elect this gentleman at the next General Election ( Kier Starmers constituency).

 

[armchairclubber]

 

[Zeberdi]

Bashing Kier Starmer for not declaring Israel is in breach of international law is a bit pointless imo because what will it achieve? - He is still an opposition leader of a Country that is more beholden to the US than it is to the people of Gaza. The UK will not likely ever maintain a different policy to the US on this issue and frankly, “declarations” of anything are just empty vessel protests anyway that have no real impact if it is not followed up by action - Israel has ignored UN declarations for decades, the ICC takes years to process war crime accusations by which time if genocide is the aim, it is too late to save the population concerned.

Rather than holding our collective noses and rummaging around in the internal dirty washing of the Labour Party, I think calling for Sunak and Biden especially to put more pressure on Netanyahu to come to a ceasefire agreement and put conditioning military aid on the table when doing so will be more helpful for the people of Gaza. However, Congress would not support that yet, the majority of Americans still support Israel‘s war, the military aid revenue to the US from channeling arms to Israel is massive and Biden faces a split electorate in a very tight race for reelection.

Changing public opinion so it becomes more costly than not for political leaders to ignore their voting electorate is probably the way change will come - legitimate protest and education on the wider Palestinian issues of freedom and independence is key to that but as I said above, one can come down off the fence without being anti-semitic, Islamophobic or an extremist:

Interesting interview with one of the students arrested in the US

Israel Hamas war: Arrested UCLA student denies protest was violent

Aidan Doyle, 21, was arrested on Thursday for being part of an encampment at UCLA.. He says he's shocked that the police arrested so many student protesters, but did not intervene in an attack on the protesters by a pro-Israeli group the day before.

news.sky.com

 

[armchairclubber]

Bashing Kier Starmer for not declaring Israel is in breach of international law is a bit pointless imo because what will it achieve? - He is still an opposition leader of a Country that is more beholden to the US than it is to the people of Gaza. The UK will not likely ever maintain a different policy to the US on this issue and frankly, “declarations” of anything are just empty vessel protests anyway that have no real impact if it is not followed up by action - Israel has ignored UN declarations for decades, the ICC takes years to process war crime accusations by which time if genocide is the aim, it is too late to save the population concerned.

Rather than holding our collective noses and rummaging around in the internal dirty washing of the Labour Party, I think calling for Sunak and Biden especially to put more pressure on Netanyahu to come to a ceasefire agreement and put conditioning military aid on the table when doing so will be more helpful for the people of Gaza. However, Congress would not support that yet, the majority of Americans still support Israel‘s war, the military aid revenue to the US from channeling arms to Israel is massive and Biden faces a split electorate in a very tight race for reelection.

Changing public opinion so it becomes more costly than not for political leaders to ignore their voting electorate is probably the way change will come - legitimate protest and education on the wider Palestinian issues of freedom and independence is key to that but as I said above, one can come down off the fence without being anti-semitic, Islamophobic or an extremist:

Interesting interview with one of the students arrested in the US

Israel Hamas war: Arrested UCLA student denies protest was violent

Aidan Doyle, 21, was arrested on Thursday for being part of an encampment at UCLA.. He says he's shocked that the police arrested so many student protesters, but did not intervene in an attack on the protesters by a pro-Israeli group the day before.

news.sky.com

I'm trying to understand your point in bold. How do you propose to do this, with some kind of "opposition" party?

I agree quite rightly that many people have been wanting that for months as well as other possible sanctions.

 

[Zeberdi]

I'm trying to understand your point in bold. How do you propose to do this, with some kind of "opposition" party?

I agree quite rightly that many people have been wanting that for months as well as other possible sanctions.

Just to be clear, I not planning or proposing anything

I am just saying, the electorate has more power now, this year when both the UK and the US are having GEs that protest can be effective in influencing voting behaviour - at the end of the day, all politicians in a liberal democracy rely on public support - lose that, they become powerless.

Voters are making their intentions felt in US and the UK (in bi-elections and wards that have a high Muslim demographic) and widespread media coverage of demonstrations may not always be unbiased or complimentary but at least it keeps the issues of Palestine on the front burner - while that happens, more people become aware of their suffering.

Labour has 'searching' to do after losing votes in areas with high Muslim population, Jess Phillips says

Analysis from Sky News shows that areas with a Muslim population below 5% saw the Labour Party's vote share increase by 1.1 percentage points. But areas with a Muslim population above 20% saw Sir Keir Starmer's party lose 17.9 points from their vote share.

news.sky.com

 

[armchairclubber]

Just to be clear, I not planning or proposing anything

I am just saying, the electorate has more power now, this year when both the UK and the US are having GEs that protest can be effective in influencing voting behaviour - at the end of the day, all politicians in a liberal democracy rely on public support - lose that, they become powerless.

OK, I may continue to "bash" Starmer then. More wanting him to be held to account on his position and hypocrisy I would say.

Voters are making their intentions felt in US and the UK (in bi-elections and wards that have a high Muslim demographic) and widespread media coverage of demonstrations may not always be unbiased or complimentary but at least it keeps the issues of Palestine on the front burner - while that happens, more people become aware of their suffering.

Whilst I'd agree media coverage is not always unbiased or complimentary, I'd neither say it were "widespread" of many huge demonstrations. As already discussed on this thread, this suits the agenda of both Tory and Labour Leadership and some influential media itself.