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[News] Hamas/Gaza/Israel



wellquickwoody

Many More Voting Years
NSC Patron
Aug 10, 2007
13,640
Melbourne
When you say Israeli lies, I take it you mean the state/government, which is fair enough. But what do you mean by Jewish lies? Who in particular has lied and what did they say?
Fair point.

The lies do, on the whole, emanate from the government of Israel, and its appointed spokespersons. But they are then repeated from a myriad of other sources. That could be media outlets, celebrities, community organisations etc.. What many of these have in common is their links to the Jewish faith, could be the Jewish Chronicle in the UK, Rachel Riley (prominent espouser on Jewish issues), Karen Pollock from the Holocaust Education Trust, also ‘X’ account holders from all across the globe who are not Israeli but are members of the Jewish faith.

I do not accuse all Jews of spreading these lies, but on the whole the propaganda that justifies the current extreme actions of the IDF comes from a mix of Israeli and Jewish sources. Lies would include the shooting of stone throwing children being blamed on Hamas, claims that only fighters were stripped and bound and made to kneel above what could appear to be mass graves, and that none of the many photos released by the IDF have been doctored in any way.

Hamas have committed an indefensible attack on civilians, and have tortured and killed innocent victims. But not on the same level that Israel is doing right now. Israel wants to be considered as a member of the first world, as an equal to western nations, right now it looks like an corrupt African tribal war machine.
 






Zeberdi

Brighton born & bred
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
4,978
The lies do, on the whole, emanate from the government of Israel, and its appointed spokespersons. But they are then repeated from a myriad of other sources.
This is true but be careful to distinguish between outward lies and biased POV - the Israeli Government can be accused fairly of both- many other Jewish sources are either just repeating the Government line/taken in by propaganda or expressing a biased/extreme POV rather than outward lies - but yes, dissembling facts and pedalling propaganda is certainly not ‘telling the whole truth‘ nor even portraying a fair representation of it.
That could be media outlets, celebrities, community organisations etc.. What many of these have in common is their links to the Jewish faith, could be the Jewish Chronicle in the UK, Rachel Riley (prominent espouser on Jewish issues), Karen Pollock from the Holocaust Education Trust, also ‘X’ account holders from all across the globe who are not Israeli but are members of the Jewish faith.
I think you are right - but beware of terminology Many people conflate the Jewish faith with being Jewish- they are not the same thing - the Jewish faith is Judaism. You don’t have to hold the Jewish faith to be Jewish.

- A majority of the world’s Jewish population are secular and don’t subscribe to Judaism, however most do subscribe to some form of non-religious Zionism - which is existential and political in its concept relating to the State of Israel and that simply believes Israel has a right to exist.

Netanyahu’s extreme political right wing government however ( or rather the Religious Zionists controlling it) combine religious ideology with an extreme Zionist position that advocates a Greater Israel ie that the whole of ancient Palestine ( including Gaza) should belong to Israel. These kinds of extreme Religious Zionists as you say, are guilty of perpetuating lies and propaganda against Palestinians and Islam in general to achieve their purpose to create a Greater Israel; deny statehood to the Palestinian people and attempt to disguise their genocidal agenda relating to the war in Gaza. The Israeli Ambassador to Britain is a Religious Zionist who has been a minister in Netanyahu’s far right Government and has pedalled lies and propaganda about PalestinIans for years.

The majority of hardline Zionists that you often see speaking in strong support of Israel in MSM and Jewish chronicles etc believe that the existence of ‘Israel’ is necessary for Jews to protect themselves against anti-semitism or more specifically genocide - these ‘voices’ while not necessarily supporting Netanyahu’s policies or subscribing to any form of religious extremism, do see Israel as the victim in the Israel/Palestinian relationship ( as opposed to accepting any mutual responsibility for the decades of conflict) which, rather than pedalling lies per se, is a very culturally biased POV and more often than not rooted in Islamophobia.
 


aolstudios

Well-known member
Nov 30, 2011
4,630
brighton
Remarkable how Iran can manipulate the entire world so easily.

Goal: Prevent Saudi Arabia and Israel normalising relations and making the middle east safer.
---> Fund Hamas and plan huge terror attack
---> Wait for Israel to total Gaza in revenge
---> Profit from Muslims around the world's outrage
This... ^
 














armchairclubber

Well-known member
Aug 8, 2010
1,278
Bexhill
Are you still knocking one out over Frys Christmas message @aolstudios ?

1703846495658.png
 

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armchairclubber

Well-known member
Aug 8, 2010
1,278
Bexhill
Would you react like this to someone from any other minority's experience of racism?
I guess Jews don't count
My sincere apologies if I have offended you or anyone who were Jewish. I have no idea if you are Jewish.

Your reply to my Alexis Sayle, who is Jewish, Christmas message calling for a ceasefire was "surely there was something more moderate in Der Stürmer" which itself is offensive. You then posted Steven Frys "Zionist" message.

I thought it worth bringing to your attention that Frys message may not be seen as moderate itself by many, including Jewish people.

Now that your back, perhaps you can reveal your position moving forward?
 
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Zeberdi

Brighton born & bred
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
4,978
Would you react like this to someone from any other minority's experience of racism?
I guess Jews don't count
I think you may need to accept @aolstudios , the real issue here is that you may have a different interpretation of ‘anti-semitism’ than some people. I’m not saying your interpretation is wrong but I think it is an interpretation that maybe sees any criticism of Israel or maybe even just the Government of Israel as being anti-Semitic since Israel is seen within a narrow definition of being a Jewish State in that interpretation of anti-semitism.. Whereas others may see that it is a legitimate line of thought to hold any Government or Country to account, including Israel - as long as the criticisms aren’t seen as racial slurs/stereotypical tropes against Jews as a people nor anti-religious prejudice of Judaistic beliefs.

 


aolstudios

Well-known member
Nov 30, 2011
4,630
brighton
I think you may need to accept @aolstudios , the real issue here is that you may have a different interpretation of ‘anti-semitism’ than some people. I’m not saying your interpretation is wrong but I think it is an interpretation that maybe sees any criticism of Israel or maybe even just the Government of Israel as being anti-Semitic since Israel is seen within a narrow definition of being a Jewish State in that interpretation of anti-semitism.. Whereas others may see that it is a legitimate line of thought to hold any Government or Country to account, including Israel - as long as the criticisms aren’t seen as racial slurs/stereotypical tropes against Jews as a people nor anti-religious prejudice of Judaistic beliefs.

Nope. Not at all. I'm good with IHRA
 


Krafty

Well-known member
Apr 19, 2023
1,775
Do you condemn Israel’s bombardment of Gaza in this conflict?
After ignoring my question, I genuinely believe that @aolstudios' answer would be no.

Therefore suggesting that they seem determined on death and destruction.

[However, this is only an assumption]
 
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aolstudios

Well-known member
Nov 30, 2011
4,630
brighton
How does your slur against Alexis Sayles Christmas message for peace and a ceasefire in Gaza "surely there was something more moderate in Der Stürmer" fit in with IHRA?
Absolutely fine. I'm allowed to criticise a Jew. As are you.
(there are even Antisemitic Jews, as there are Mexicans & blacks for Trump & proud boys)
 


A1X

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 1, 2017
18,259
Deepest, darkest Sussex


Zeberdi

Brighton born & bred
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
4,978

Easy mistake to make, who amongst us hasn’t set out to bomb a refugee camp and ended up using the wrong sort of munitions when doing it?
When it comes to bombs, there’s ‘dumb’ and dumber, the latter referring those that use them 🙁
 








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