[News] Hamas/Gaza/Israel

[wellquickwoody]

Thank you to you both

 

[aolstudios]

No answer to the Apartheid evidence then and instead just more smearing?

Weaponising anti-semitism to defend Apartheid is pretty shameful.

Yeah, all the Corbynites said that.

 

[aolstudios]

Well, he (Corbyn that is) was going into full Michael Foot mode as a leader of the Labour Party heading for a catastrophic election defeat.

Way beyond that, tbh

 

[borat]

The list of Israeli war crimes grows ever longer

 

[jonny.rainbow]

Are the tunnels under the hospital the new weapons of mass destruction in Iraq?

Odd they haven’t been found yet.

 

[Zeberdi]

Are the tunnels under the hospital the new weapons of mass destruction in Iraq?

Odd they haven’t been found yet.

It’s hard to know what to believe- I have also been thinking that there are similarities although in this case ‘Hamas leaders will be killed and weapons found’ for how else will the death of 4,000 children ever be ‘justified’? Finding ‘evidence‘ is Israel’s only defence to the charge of war crimes but ‘any‘ evidence is not enough …and what evidence is found, needs to be checked for its provenance imo.

Competing narratives typify this war so it is simply a question of how many more civilians have to die before Israel can provide enough evidence to say all this was justified? - Which is exactly why any claims of weapons found or evidence of Hamas operations bases has to be independently verified by the UN teams who can’t even get access into Al Shifa at the moment.

What has Israel ‘found’ in Gaza’s al-Shifa Hospital?

The Israeli military claims it has found rifles, grenades and military vests — but so far, no Hamas command centre.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[Albion my Albion]

- ‘eliminating the terrorists’ is largely incontrovertible, it’s the mass killing of civilians that people have an issue with.

the innocent civilians that the terrorists are hiding among in their hospitals. The same terrorists that you agree need to be eliminated. You want Israel to play by international rules while Hamas doesn't agree to those international rules and YOU are giving them license to do that.

 

[nicko31]

70,000 litres of fuel per day. That a whisky shot per capita , it won’t stop mass starvation

Israel says it will allow two trucks of fuel a day into Gaza

Mobile phone and internet connections have reportedly been partially restored after a fuel delivery.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Zeberdi]

Marches taking place around UK -today - not the size of the London ones - terrible weather!

More than 100 pro-Palestine rallies to take place across UK, say organisers | Israel-Hamas war | The Guardian

Groups behind ceasefire protests attended by hundreds of thousands say local action will replace London march this week

amp.theguardian.com

Pro-Palestinian rallies to take place across the UK - with London march planned for next weekend

It comes a week after hundreds of thousands of people marched through the capital, calling for a ceasefire.

news.sky.com

 

[Zeberdi]

the innocent civilians that the terrorists are hiding among in their hospitals. The same terrorists that you agree need to be eliminated. You want Israel to play by international rules while Hamas doesn't agree to those international rules and YOU are giving them license to do that.

Firstly, the civilians are hiding in hospitals because they are either wounded/sick/or dying or because they are sheltering from Israeli bombs and unrelenting rocket attacks - I’m not giving Hamas licence to do anything - you saying that is just incorrect and based on a false correlation.

YES - btw - Israel I do expect certainly to abide by the Geneva convention and international humanitarian law - she is a State player, has benefited for decades from international trade, cooperation and arms sales as well as having a seat on the UN Security Council - that comes with a responsibility- Israel is signatory to the conventions and treaties with a military power far superior to Hamas and is unleashing horror on the Palestinian people. Two wrongs don’t make a right as you well know. I am simply saying 11,000 dead civilians and Israel has yet to show any evidence of having achieved Netanyahu’s objectives to get the hostages out alive and destroy Hamas.

You will find yourself on the wrong side of history my friend - support for Israel’s attack on Gaza is waning - and sympathy for the Palestinians is gaining global support and recognition of their plight.

And in case you think of twisting AGAIN what I have been saying on this thread, the attack by Hamas on Israel on 7/10 was utterly contemptible.

Both Israeli citizens and the civilians in Gaza deserve better than this.

 

[Flounce]

If it had been Britain brutally attacked by an old enemy in a surprise event in which innocent Brits were killed & their children forced to watch their parents murdered I think many would feel only one thing and that was to eliminate the terrorists and make Britain safe again. I know it is the way many, many Americans would feel.

Children of Gaza who who have lost most of their family members in this war will be the next generation of “terrorists” imo.

 

[tedebear]

You will find yourself on the wrong side of history my friend - support for Israel’s attack on Gaza is waning - and sympathy for the Palestinians is gaining global support and recognition of their plight.

Both Israeli citizens and the civilians in Gaza deserve better than this.

This is absolutely the thing. Hamas doing what they did was disgusting and there are war crimes have no doubt. But Israels respose now is excessive to say the least and beyond supportable, with war crimes of their own openly now occuring.

Its hard to see this war ever resolving anything though, which makes it even more horrific. A two state solution will continue to be fractious unless Israel fully hand back land and settlements they have taken outside the agreements of 70 odd years ago from Palestinians (doubtful they would), and leave Gaza and the West bank alone to govern itself (can it without enabling terrorists in a vacuum of power?)...Whilst in the middle people like you and I are being decimated.

What doesn't help is the inflammatory language used by both sides, racism, apartheid, colonial genocide. This article is particularly chilling, drawing a correlation with the Tutsi genocide, rightly or wrongly:

‘Human animals’: The sordid language behind Israel’s genocide in Gaza

“[Tutsis] are cockroaches. We will kill you.”Arabs are like “drugged cockroaches in a bottle”.The first quote was a line repeated frequently by the Radio Télévision Libre des Mille Collines, a Rwandan radio station, which is largely blamed for inciting hatred towards the Tutsi people. The second...

jordantimes.com

 

[shingle]

Here's some pics of mine from last weeks London event, I only caught the end bit as I was doing the Lord Mayor's show over in the City.

 

[Zeberdi]

What doesn't help is the inflammatory language used by both sides, racism, apartheid, colonial genocide. This article is particularly chilling, drawing a correlation with the Tutsi genocide, rightly or wrongly:

I agree with everything you say above but on your definition of what Is inflammatory language - referring to what is happening in Gaza as ‘genocide’ maybe too early yet to prove- (those committing it in law need to be shown as having intention) but the policies Israel are pursuing is having a genocidal effect so the discussion needs to be had (and is being had) as to whether the Israeli response to the attack on 10/7 constitutes ‘genocide’.

The use of the word ‘apartheid’ is not inflammatory imo ( unless you disagree that Palestinian citizens in Israel do not have the same legal and civil rights as Jewish citizens?) ‘Apartheid’ describes any system of government where a proportion of the population are unequal under the laws of that country due to race, religion etc

I absolutely agree that there is racial intolerance on both sides and extremely unhelpful (as has been some of the language used by a few posters here directed at other posters who have expressed alternative PoVs as well as some of the language that’s been directed at Palestinians or Jews)

 

[Albion my Albion]

Children of Gaza who who have lost most of their family members in this war will be the next generation of “terrorists” imo.

As I have explained before they don't have to be terrorists. Why aren't the Israeli children of the parents killed in front of those Israeli children expected to be terrorists? If the Gaza children actually abide by the international rules of war and realize peace is a better process I think then a two state solution can be worked out. But to expect the opposite reaction of what is expected of the Israeli children is not a proper way to think. They are all children dying and watching their parents die.

 

[beorhthelm]

As I have explained before they don't have to be terrorists. Why aren't the Israeli children of the parents killed in front of those Israeli children expected to be terrorists? If the Gaza children actually abide by the international rules of war and realize peace is a better process I think then a two state solution can be worked out. But to expect the opposite reaction of what is expected of the Israeli children is not a proper way to think. They are all children dying and watching their parents die.

they get to join IDF instead.

 

[Flounce]

they get to join IDF instead.

Quite

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

they get to join IDF instead.

They got little say in the matter. Most have to join the IDF

 

[Bakero]

As I have explained before they don't have to be terrorists. Why aren't the Israeli children of the parents killed in front of those Israeli children expected to be terrorists? If the Gaza children actually abide by the international rules of war and realize peace is a better process I think then a two state solution can be worked out. But to expect the opposite reaction of what is expected of the Israeli children is not a proper way to think. They are all children dying and watching their parents die.

Because the Israeli children won't grow up in a poverty-stricken open-air prison.

 

[borat]

Interesting commentary/interview highlighting the deep ties between Israel and both our leadership and media.

Covers how Israel is for the first time starting to lose its control of the narrative mainly due to the rise of social media - Has given more scope for the stream propaganda to be refuted more easily. Downside is that said propaganda can be disseminated more easily.