[News] Hamas/Gaza/Israel

[Zeberdi]

Palestinian casualties of Israeli military action over the last 10 years outnumber those in reverse by about 50 to 1, but you knew that already.

I agree and there’s been more children and women killed out of those Palestinian totals too than with Israeli casualties - but any innocent death Israeli or Palestinian arising from the Palestinian conflict is a tragedy imo and a sad indictment on years of political leadership in the world that has allowed this to drag on for so many decades - doing a numbers game doesn’t make it any less painful or any less likely to entrench hatred on either side towards each other - it just perpetrates a cyclical pattern of tit for tat violence.

 

[tedebear]

I can't support either side, but just want the killing to stop. Arab's back years have been diametrically opposed to the Jewish, who are diametrically opposed to the Arabs. The Arabs (Palestinians) have always been more blood thirsty (hence some people applauding Hamas' initial activity), but the Israelis (Jewish) got clever and asked the Americans and the world to help with funding to arm themselves to fight back with power. Hence some Palestinans got into bed with Hamas, and form alliances with Hezbollah or Iran, whilst Israselis power themselves with the Western World for support (do we or just our governments?), and in the middle millions of people who really aren't arab or jew, but just happen to be born or live there, get decimated in the middle. Here endeth Ted's very high level, superbly and probably wrongly generalised summary of the last quantillion years.

But what I don't understand is there has been nothing that has been tried in the last 100 years to resolve this regions issues to anyones satisfaction, so why do they keep going down this route of blowing each other up. Hamas are bloodthirsty as are the Palestinians who support Hamas and voted for them. Israel and BN seem to have armed themselves to the back teeth and now see no course other than blowing Hamas up. Does Hamas have to be blown off the planet to resolve this, or will that simply open the door for someone else. Will Netanyahu remove his tanks from Gaza when this is done. He's been pinching land under the guise of removing terrorists for ages....

I still always find it interesting that there are no women that I can see of power in these situations, just men...Truly never quite sure what that says, but an interesting observation.

Bet Putin is loving this, takes all the pressue off his land grab and rape and pillage of other innocent people.

 

[Bakero]

I can't support either side, but just want the killing to stop. Arab's back years have been diametrically opposed to the Jewish, who are diametrically opposed to the Arabs. The Arabs (Palestinians) have always been more blood thirsty (hence some people applauding Hamas' initial activity), but the Israelis (Jewish) got clever and asked the Americans and the world to help with funding to arm themselves to fight back with power. Hence some Palestinans got into bed with Hamas, and form alliances with Hezbollah or Iran, whilst Israselis power themselves with the Western World for support (do we or just our governments?), and in the middle millions of people who really aren't arab or jew, but just happen to be born or live there, get decimated in the middle. Here endeth Ted's very high level, superbly and probably wrongly generalised summary of the last quantillion years.

But what I don't understand is there has been nothing that has been tried in the last 100 years to resolve this regions issues to anyones satisfaction, so why do they keep going down this route of blowing each other up. Hamas are bloodthirsty as are the Palestinians who support Hamas and voted for them. Israel and BN seem to have armed themselves to the back teeth and now see no course other than blowing Hamas up. Does Hamas have to be blown off the planet to resolve this, or will that simply open the door for someone else. Will Netanyahu remove his tanks from Gaza when this is done. He's been pinching land under the guise of removing terrorists for ages....

I still always find it interesting that there are no women that I can see of power in these situations, just men...Truly never quite sure what that says, but an interesting observation.

Bet Putin is loving this, takes all the pressue off his land grab and rape and pillage of other innocent people.

Bloody hell, Ted. I think you need to do some reading.

 

[tedebear]

Bloody hell, Ted. I think you need to do some reading.

its all I do!

 

[borat]

I can't support either side, but just want the killing to stop. Arab's back years have been diametrically opposed to the Jewish, who are diametrically opposed to the Arabs. The Arabs (Palestinians) have always been more blood thirsty (hence some people applauding Hamas' initial activity), but the Israelis (Jewish) got clever and asked the Americans and the world to help with funding to arm themselves to fight back with power. Hence some Palestinans got into bed with Hamas, and form alliances with Hezbollah or Iran, whilst Israselis power themselves with the Western World for support (do we or just our governments?), and in the middle millions of people who really aren't arab or jew, but just happen to be born or live there, get decimated in the middle. Here endeth Ted's very high level, superbly and probably wrongly generalised summary of the last quantillion years.

But what I don't understand is there has been nothing that has been tried in the last 100 years to resolve this regions issues to anyones satisfaction, so why do they keep going down this route of blowing each other up. Hamas are bloodthirsty as are the Palestinians who support Hamas and voted for them. Israel and BN seem to have armed themselves to the back teeth and now see no course other than blowing Hamas up. Does Hamas have to be blown off the planet to resolve this, or will that simply open the door for someone else. Will Netanyahu remove his tanks from Gaza when this is done. He's been pinching land under the guise of removing terrorists for ages....

I still always find it interesting that there are no women that I can see of power in these situations, just men...Truly never quite sure what that says, but an interesting observation.

Bet Putin is loving this, takes all the pressue off his land grab and rape and pillage of other innocent people.

Just a few tropes and generalisations thrown in there.

Please read/travel/get out more

 

[tedebear]

Just a few tropes and generalisations thrown in there.

Please read/travel/get out more

Meh, no thanks. I did say it was a generalisation, but thanks for taking the time to double point it out. Good job.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Point taken.

I just find the hypocracy and media spin absolutely galling.

It is quite even handed here. I can't say I have heard any 'it's all their fault' journalism. People from both sides are interviewed and many emote, but one expects that. There is no presentation of it as universal truth. The sense is that Israel should stop what they are doing but that won't stop Hamas carry on with what they are doing. The logic is that Israel has more fire power, but that a ceasefire can't happen because neither side want it. The logic isn't very strong. I am seeing no media spin, to be honest. But I only take note of the BBC. I appreciate that other outlets are available.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I can't support either side, but just want the killing to stop. Arab's back years have been diametrically opposed to the Jewish, who are diametrically opposed to the Arabs. The Arabs (Palestinians) have always been more blood thirsty (hence some people applauding Hamas' initial activity), but the Israelis (Jewish) got clever and asked the Americans and the world to help with funding to arm themselves to fight back with power. Hence some Palestinans got into bed with Hamas, and form alliances with Hezbollah or Iran, whilst Israselis power themselves with the Western World for support (do we or just our governments?), and in the middle millions of people who really aren't arab or jew, but just happen to be born or live there, get decimated in the middle. Here endeth Ted's very high level, superbly and probably wrongly generalised summary of the last quantillion years.

But what I don't understand is there has been nothing that has been tried in the last 100 years to resolve this regions issues to anyones satisfaction, so why do they keep going down this route of blowing each other up. Hamas are bloodthirsty as are the Palestinians who support Hamas and voted for them. Israel and BN seem to have armed themselves to the back teeth and now see no course other than blowing Hamas up. Does Hamas have to be blown off the planet to resolve this, or will that simply open the door for someone else. Will Netanyahu remove his tanks from Gaza when this is done. He's been pinching land under the guise of removing terrorists for ages....

I still always find it interesting that there are no women that I can see of power in these situations, just men...Truly never quite sure what that says, but an interesting observation.

Bet Putin is loving this, takes all the pressue off his land grab and rape and pillage of other innocent people.

Very fair.

It will take some very clever and brave people to resolve this, not least because any rapprochement from leaders of either side will likely get them assassinated by their own side. Yitzhak Rabin springs to mind. Hardly a wet liberal peacenik. Yet shot by his own side for 'betrayal'.

Meanwhile, we have passed the point where another glut of indiscriminate killing of civilians, burning of babies, kidnap and torture, beheading and gloating could possible trigger me and others into swinging full square behind either side. Both sides have crossed the rubicon now.

Perhaps that's why there is much less outcry here compared with when Putin turned on Ukraine. When you forego your humanity in pursuit of revenge, those of the rest of us who can keep our emotional distance soon find our sympathy replaced by disgust. And on this occasion it seems that neither side gives a damn about that.

 

[Zeberdi]

and in the middle millions of people who really aren't arab or jew, but just happen to be born or live there, get decimated in the middle. Here endeth Ted's very high level, superbly and probably wrongly generalised summary of the last quantillion years.

Just a couple of points of clarity - Palestinians living in Israel and in the Occupied Palestinian Territories are Arab (Sunni Muslim Arabs mostly with a minority of ’other’ including Christians)

But what I don't understand is there has been nothing that has been tried in the last 100 years to resolve this regions issues to anyones satisfaction, so why do they keep going down this route of blowing each other up

Yep - seemingly years of effort and we’ve got no where - the Oslo Accords in 1993 (where the PLO and Israel laid down their arms and set up the Palestinian Authority) was the closest that ever came to a sustainable peaceful solution until Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated by a Jewish Religious Zionist and Hamas started a stream of suicide bombings in Israel.

Hamas are bloodthirsty as are the Palestinians who support Hamas and voted for them.

Hamas are Palestinian firstly - secondly, they haven’t stood in an election since 2005 - They have routinely tortured and killed their own people who have stood against them so although you may be right (probably more so as a result of Netanyahu’s war efforts) that they do have support amongst the Gazan population, it is certainly not by electoral mandate.

 

[Krafty]

When two 'sides' cannot see eye to eye, because of mistrust and misinformation, then it becomes increasingly unlikely that we can find a suitable solution to end this horrible conflict.

 

[aolstudios]

Maybe we should gift the Palestinians an Iron Dome.

Maybe they should stop firing the rockets

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Maybe Hamas should stop firing the rockets

Fixed that for you. And yes, yes they should

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Maybe they should stop firing the rockets

The general Palestinian such as the 2.5k dead children are firing rockets ? Well I never.

 

[Albion my Albion]

Does Hamas have to be blown off the planet to resolve this

As long as Hamas feels their terrorist methods of kidnapping, burning infants, killing innocent civilians WITHOUT PROVOCATION is justified then yes, Hamas as a group must be "blown off the planet to resolve this" much like Hitler and his Nazis were eliminated of power.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

As long as Hamas feels their terrorist methods of kidnapping, burning infants, killing innocent civilians WITHOUT PROVOCATION is justified then yes, Hamas as a group must be "blown off the planet to resolve this" much like Hitler and his Nazis were eliminated of power.

We'll ignore the decades of land grab (including preventing owners of olive groves actually using their legally owned land ), murdering Palestinians ( some bulldozed to death in their own homes ), the apartheid that happens in Israel ( see the Panaroma documentary about six years ago ) or even the lack of agreeing to a two state solution - yep, no provocation at all.

 

[Bakero]

We'll ignore the decades of land grab (including preventing owners of olive groves actually using their legally owned land ), murdering Palestinians ( some bulldozed to death in their own homes ), the apartheid that happens in Israel ( see the Panaroma documentary about six years ago ) or even the lack of agreeing to a two state solution - yep, no provocation at all.

Exactly. It all started with Hamas firing some rockets, didn't it? Not surprising seeing as "the Arabs (Palestinians) have always been more bloodthirsty" (so I heard on an earlier post anyway). If only this uncivilised rabble would just let people steal their land and keep them in captivity.

 

[Zeberdi]

This fact finding report from the BBC suggests that there is a pattern of behaviour here - the IDF are repeatedly issuing warnings for Gazan evacuees to go to areas that are then attacked very shortly after - which just send shivers of horror right through me if, as the BBC suggest, it’s a deliberate ploy to herd Palestinians into areas so they might be killed, this is a massacre….and It wouldn’t be the first time

Strikes on south Gaza: BBC verifies attacks in areas of ‘safety’

The BBC has analysed four strikes in south Gaza, where civilians were told to evacuate to.

www.bbc.co.uk

https://www.npr.org/2023/11/04/1210645183/israeli-military-announces-brief-window-people-in-northern-gaza-to-flee-south

Looks to me like they are driving them all into a corner and bombing the shit out of the whole population

EDIT - 5/11/23

Will this be more of the same - and evacuees get targeted as they move South in accordance with instructions?

Israel's Military Announces A Brief Window For People In Northern Gaza To Flee South

By the end of the window, NPR had not encountered anyone able to use this so-called safe passage. Several drivers said it was impossible for anyone to make it through.

laist.com

 

[A1X]

 

[Albion my Albion]

We'll ignore the decades of land grab (including preventing owners of olive groves actually using their legally owned land ), murdering Palestinians ( some bulldozed to death in their own homes ), the apartheid that happens in Israel ( see the Panaroma documentary about six years ago ) or even the lack of agreeing to a two state solution - yep, no provocation at all.

Is that really provocation for terrorism? Kidnapping, beheadings, babies burned, children killed in their kibbutz, etc.? Which side sent it to terrorism that was justified?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Is that really provocation for terrorism? Kidnapping, beheadings, babies burned, children killed in their kibbutz, etc.? Which side sent it to terrorism that was justified?

Well yes. Desperate people turn to deaperate means. In this case the people of Gaza turned to Hamas after years of suppression and murder by Israel. I don't condone what Hamas has done but Israel sealed it's own fate - it had a chance of peace with the PA and a two state solution. So equally I don't condone the murder of Palesinians by Israel. You were the one that stated there was no provocation - there was and continues to be. All Israel is doing is murdering innocents and in turn creating the next generation of terrorists - they really are that stupid !