[News] Hamas/Gaza/Israel

[knocky1]

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Look them up. They're nutters, paid by Iran. If you want to use them to prove a point you're on the same team as every lazy hardcore Jew hater on the net

I was at a meeting of people at the Peace Statue to beg for an end of the killing of civilians in Gaza. Many Israeli's agree. Not sure why I'm a jew hater. I'd guess I've met and liked more than you.

 

[knocky1]

I didn't call him a Jew hater. Every Jew hater uses them to attack Jews though

You need to explain that better or you're a thicko.

 

[Wokeworrier]

i did and they look like extreme Jewish sect that dont agree with the Zionism. they are entitled to their opinion and interpretation of religious scripture as the next. if you have it, provide some evidence, rather than shrill accusations and calling people jew haters.

They also seem to regularly associate with Israels enemies, holocaust deniers and terrorists intent on the destruction of Israel ...

You are being redirected...

www.adl.org

 

[Psychobilly freakout]

They also seem to regularly associate with Israels enemies, holocaust deniers and terrorists intent on the destruction of Israel ...

You are being redirected...

www.adl.org

How fecked up is religion

 

[NorthstandRacoon]

Interesting reading the many responses to the article I posted the other day, many people making good points.

I think most reasonable people would agree there can be no long lasting peace or security for Israel or the poor unfortunate souls in Gaza until Hamas are eradicated, the difficulty comes in how that is achieved and at what cost.

Everyone seems to know what Israel shouldn't be doing in response to the initial awful Hamas attack but as yet I haven't seen any realistic options that would remove Hamas from power, (other than military intervention) which is the only way any long lasting peace can be achieved.

As awful as the current situation is for the civilians in Gaza a ground offensive seems the only way to remove Hamas control in Gaza. Understanding this will inevitably lead to more civilian deaths, the International community should apply maximum pressure on the Israeli government to minimise civilian deaths while understanding they have the right to defend their citizens/Israel.

Just to add, for long lasting peace/a two state solution, the current Israeli government needs to go at some point but that will inevitably happen through democratic means.

Hamas will always be there. They go, more extremism will follow, it is a viscious cycle. But do agree with what you are saying, to some degree

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Hamas will always be there. They go, more extremism will follow, it is a viscious cycle. But do agree with what you are saying, to some degree

Indeed. And Gaza is a one-headed hydra right now. Cut off the head, as Israel may, new heads will grow.

 

[borat]

@aolstudios What's your opinion on this?

There were also Jewish groups and individuals on every march in London.

They will be labelled the "wrong sort" of Jews and smeared as anti-semites. A tactic frivolously employed by the Labour right / right wingers to anyone sympathetic to the plight of Palestinians

 

[carlzeiss]

Crazy goings-on in the republic of Dagestan yesterday

 

[NorthstandRacoon]

Indeed. And Gaza is a one-headed hydra right now. Cut off the head, as Israel may, new heads will grow.

Gotta be diplomatic solutions only? But apparently that’s been tried for years?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Gotta be diplomatic solutions only? But apparently that’s been tried for years?

America vetos anything that would compel the Israelis to do anything they refuse to do. With their government often being the right wing Likud in a coalition with raving zealots, any whiff of rolling back the occupation of the west bank by 'settlers' claiming their biblical heritage, for example, is off the agenda.

I can't see any progress being made till America changes it's 'my Israel, right or wrong' policy. The irony is that if it did that, and if Israel put its right wing nutters in their place, they could acquire the moral upper hand over Gaza, and negotiate either a settlement or, if Hamas won't disarm, full invasion and take over, rebuilding a modern state with encouragement of emergence of non sectarian Palestinian political leadership, guaranteed by a permanent Israeli armed presence, rather like a turbo version of Northern Ireland before the peace process (which seems to be what the Israelis are doing now, albeit left to their own devices they will simply destroy without rebuilding, I suspect).

Ironically perhaps, I think the biggest obstacle to lasting peace is the Jewish settlements in the West Bank, rather than the whirling dervish that is Palestine.

 

[dsr-burnley]

Does Hamas want a ceasefire?

I can't see any progress being made till America changes it's 'my Israel, right or wrong' policy. The irony is that if it did that, and if Israel put its right wing nutters in their place, they could acquire the moral upper hand over Gaza, and negotiate either a settlement or, if Hamas won't disarm, full invasion and take over, rebuilding a modern state with encouragement of emergence of non sectarian Palestinian political leadership, guaranteed by a permanent Israeli armed presence, rather like a turbo version of Northern Ireland before the peace process (which seems to be what the Israelis are doing now, albeit left to their own devices they will simply destroy without rebuilding, I suspect).

Isn't that what they tried to do in 2005 when Israel pulled out of Gaza?

 

[WATFORD zero]

America vetos anything that would compel the Israelis to do anything they refuse to do. With their government often being the right wing Likud in a coalition with raving zealots, any whiff of rolling back the occupation of the west bank by 'settlers' claiming their biblical heritage, for example, is off the agenda.

I can't see any progress being made till America changes it's 'my Israel, right or wrong' policy. The irony is that if it did that, and if Israel put its right wing nutters in their place, they could acquire the moral upper hand over Gaza, and negotiate either a settlement or, if Hamas won't disarm, full invasion and take over, rebuilding a modern state with encouragement of emergence of non sectarian Palestinian political leadership, guaranteed by a permanent Israeli armed presence, rather like a turbo version of Northern Ireland before the peace process (which seems to be what the Israelis are doing now, albeit left to their own devices they will simply destroy without rebuilding, I suspect).

Ironically perhaps, I think the biggest obstacle to lasting peace is the Jewish settlements in the West Bank, rather than the whirling dervish that is Palestine.

As discussed earlier in some detail, the problem is that for any extreme Israeli groups not wanting a two state solution then supporting Hamas is ideal as it splits the Palestinian extreme support away from the moderates.

How Israel helped create Hamas

It also obscures Hamas's curious history. To a certain degree, the Islamist organization whose militant wing has rained rockets on Israel the past few weeks has the Jewish state to thank for its existence. Hamas launched in 1988 in Gaza at the time of the first intifada, or uprising, with a charter now infamous for its anti-Semitism and its refusal to accept the existence of the Israeli state. But for more than a decade prior, Israeli authorities actively enabled its rise.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/07/30/how-israel-helped-create-hamas/

If you have the time, there are lots of interviews and first hand reports from Israeli officials at the time explaining how they backed Hamas (and it's forerunners) in order to try and split Palestinian support away from the powerful and secular PLO who were wanting a two state solution.

I wonder if they now regard what they did as successful

Yes, I've seen that. This view, obviously, became less popular after 1988 when Hamas became a fully-fledged military/terrorist organisation (subsequently supported and controlled by Iran) but came back into vogue from 2014 under Netanyahu's leadership.
Some similarity with the US funding Bin Laden during the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan and enabling the creation of Al Qaeda as a terrorist organisation.

And at the moment it seems the extremes who have the upper hand (on both sides) with no sign of that changing

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Does Hamas want a ceasefire?

Isn't that what they tried to do in 2005 when Israel pulled out of Gaza?

Followed by a right wing Israeli backlash, heralding the resurrection of Bibi and the lurch to where we are today? Possibly.

 

[nicko31]

As discussed earlier in some detail, the problem is that for any extreme Israeli groups not wanting a two state solution then supporting Hamas is ideal as it splits the Palestinian extreme support away from the moderates.



And at the moment it seems the extremes who have the upper hand (on both sides) with no sign of that changing

They aided Hamas as they knew they never wanted peace and that suited them just fine.

Its a total crime the US has stood by for decades and watched Israel build more and more settlements in the West Bank. The Trump era coupled with a far right Israeli government just fanned the flames.

This map is tragic. All these Israeli nature reserves, honestly WTF...

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/West_Bank_Access_Restrictions_June_2020.pdf

 

[WATFORD zero]

The one and only issue is still how do you stop the horrendous atrocities being carried on innocent civilians from both sides

The only definite is that wiping out Israel, Hamas or any other group is simply going to prolong it for further generations, and anyone supporting any of these aims, either directly or tacitly are actively contributing to and increasing the murders of those innocents

 

[aolstudios]

Gotta be diplomatic solutions only? But apparently that’s been tried for years?

How can you negotiate with a death cult? Their stated intention is to kill all the Jews

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

The one and only issue is still how do you stop the horrendous atrocities being carried on innocent civilians from both sides

The only definite is that wiping out Israel, Hamas or any other group is simply going to prolong it for further generations, and anyone supporting any of these aims, either directly or tacitly are actively contributing to and increasing the murders of those innocents

These poor traumatised innocent people on both sides of the divide will be suffering PTSD for the rest of their lives

 

[WATFORD zero]

These poor traumatised innocent people on both sides of the divide will be suffering PTSD for the rest of their lives

A huge number of those involved are under 18. Sadly there's nothing post about what they suffer, it has been an ongoing daily part of their entire lives. But apparently, negotiation is not the answer, so more of the same then

 

[nicko31]

A huge number of those involved are under 18. Sadly there's nothing post about what they suffer, it has been an ongoing daily part of their entire lives. But apparently, negotiation is not the answer, so more of the same then

The proportion of children dead in Gaza is almost the same as the proportion of the Gaza. Its tragic and shows a sledgehammer approach is being used with little care.

 

[carlzeiss]

Hamas Hostage Shani Louk Beheaded After She Was Paraded Naked Through Streets of Gaza, Israeli President Says

Israeli-German hostage Shani Louk was beheaded by Hamas after being kidnapped from a music festival and then paraded through the streets of Gaza by terrorists on Oct. 7, Israel's president says.

themessenger.com