[News] Hamas/Gaza/Israel

[Westdene Seagull]

What is the land of Palestine? You are trying not to see it but it is there. They want all the land of Palestine to be an Islamic Calliphate. This is not a secret. It is openly stated by Hamas.
In its 1988 charter, Hamas said it sought to destroy the state of Israel and create an Islamic society in historic Palestine.

I'm seriously beginning to think you have a dog in this race with your one sided view. So Hamas might want a one state solution but they don't run the far bigger area of the West Bank. And besides, Israel wants a single state as well - something they and Hamas both agree on - along with the slaughter of innocent civilians - both appear quite happy with that as well. And of course, neither eat pork.

 

[nicko31]

Yes. As stated many times, Hamas deliberately locates its rocket launchers and command centres in densely populated residential areas.

The whole of Gaza is a densely populated area and getting denser by the day as more buildings are reduced to rubble.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Yes, you could easily make numerous, less offensive comparisons but you continually use the Nazi comparison, why?

The International Holocaust Alliance disagrees with you as do the 43 UN member countries including the UK who have all adopted or endorsed their working definition of antisemitism including drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.

I would hope at least some of the Mods are less interested in your trolling and more concerned about more serious ramifications for you and this site.

Harley Street doctor compares Israel to Nazis as she posts picture of swastika next to state flag

Cosmetics procedures specialist reported to police over online comments following bombing of Gaza in response to Hamas massacre

www.telegraph.co.uk

Because the similarities and comparisons around actions and treatment of another group of people are there to be made. I've said nothing that would put me at risk of arrest or prosecution.

Ah - you mention the UN. So this would be the same UN whose General Secretary said this of BOTH sides "I am deeply concerned about the clear violations of international humanitarian law that we are witnessing in Gaza" or indeed the same UN that has ruled Israel illegally occupies Gaza, the West Bank and the Golan Heights. Strange how supporters of Israel quote "UN member countries" but chose to ignore or slag off the UN when it suits them. As a slight aside - many UN member countries support the two state solution - the one Israel rejects outright.

 

[Seagull58]

I'm seriously beginning to think you have a dog in this race with your one sided view. So Hamas might want a one state solution but they don't run the far bigger area of the West Bank. And besides, Israel wants a single state as well - something they and Hamas both agree on - along with the slaughter of innocent civilians - both appear quite happy with that as well.

So you accept that the Hamas Charter calls for the destruction of Israel and a single Islamic state in the land of Palestine, yes?
Edit: please note that I added more content to my previous post while you were replying.
I agree that there are elements in Israel that want an enlarged Israeli state encompassing the entire biblical land of Palestine. I am not presenting a one-sided view. I have provided facts about the Hamas Charter.

 

[Krafty]

What is the land of Palestine? You are trying not to see it but it is there. They want all the land of Palestine to be an Islamic Calliphate. This is not a secret. It is openly stated by Hamas.
In its 1988 charter, Hamas said it sought to destroy the state of Israel and create an Islamic society in historic Palestine.
The 2017 charter accepted for the first time the idea of a Palestinian state within the borders that existed before 1967 and rejects recognition of Israel which it terms as the "Zionist enemy".[2] It advocates such a state as transitional but also advocates "liberation of all of Palestine".
But you know that anyway.

I must state that no one here supports Hamas.

What some want, like many Israelis and Palestinians, is a two-state solution where there can be peace. However, this seems increasingly unlikely due to Hamas and the Israeli authorities wanting a one-state solution, alike the extremists in both countries.

 

[birthofanorange]

Jeez, this really has turned into a blame v blame bollocks. I'm only interested in what is happening and what is likely to occur in the near future.

 

[Seagull58]

I must state that no one here supports Hamas.

What some want, like many Israelis and Palestinians, is a two-state solution where there can be peace. However, this seems increasingly unlikely due to Hamas and the Israeli authorities wanting a one-state solution, alike the extremists in both countries.

I agree with you with the proviso that Hamas has written into its charter the destruction of Israel but I'm not aware of the Israeli government stating that their objective is a one state solution across the whole of Palestine, albeit there are likely people within the Israeli authorities that want that solution.

 

[Seagull58]

Jeez, this really has turned into a blame v blame bollocks. I'm only interested in what is happening and what is likely to occur in the near future.

I haven't seen any "blame v blame bollocks". I've seen total agreement that what is happening is wrong and bad and discussion about why it is happening, including discussion about the long-term objectives of Hamas and the Israeli State.

 

[birthofanorange]

I haven't seen any "blame v blame bollocks". I've seen total agreement that what is happening is wrong and bad and discussion about why it is happening, including discussion about the long-term objectives of Hamas and the Israeli State.

Whatever.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

The Israelis are blinded right now by their grief which is understandable. Hamas will be greatly weakened for sure, but Gaza will be left in an even more desperate state than before and from on new generation of terrorists will be born.

As for turning away the UN, do they honestly think this will help bolster International support?

Are the Palestinians blinded by the slaughter of their people for decades? Having their home land invaded illegally? Being subjected to being imprisoned within their own land? All regularly discussed by the UN but no real interest by the USA or the UK, who are both complicit in the conflict, to help the situation.

Of course Israel have a right to protect their people, no one on here has said otherwise. An innocent life is worth equal irrelevant of who they are. Israel's maths has been somewhat skewed for decades in that regard.

If all the terrorists are removed from Gaza and the West Bank and without support from other Arab states, Israel will take the land without doubt. It's just talk when Western countries say they want a 2 state solution, they've done nothing about it of note for years!

I disagree with apologists, who want to present day Britain to apologise for what our forefathers did, especially the empire and so on. However we have to face up to the actions taken back then and where we have influenced what is happening in the world today.

In most of our lifetimes we've seen us go into wars, debatable if they were legal, without a single idea what to do at the end. We jump in with the USA. A country of the free, run by madmen, and supposedly the super power in the world for good. A country that's never won a single war on its own let alone the peace the other side.

 

[WATFORD zero]

So you accept that the Hamas Charter calls for the destruction of Israel and a single Islamic state in the land of Palestine, yes?
Edit: please note that I added more content to my previous post while you were replying.
I agree that there are elements in Israel that want an enlarged Israeli state encompassing the entire biblical land of Palestine. I am not presenting a one-sided view. I have provided facts about the Hamas Charter.

I tried asking @Wokeworrier this exact question, but he seems unable to answer

And while we are on constructive debate, what do you think Israel were hoping to achieve when they funded the set up and development of Hamas ?

So why do you think Israel funded the set up of Hamas way back in 1998 when the charter that you quote was actually written?

 

[nicko31]

Are the Palestinians blinded by the slaughter of their people for decades? Having their home land invaded illegally? Being subjected to being imprisoned within their own land? All regularly discussed by the UN but no real interest by the USA or the UK, who are both complicit in the conflict, to help the situation.

Of course Israel have a right to protect their people, no one on here has said otherwise. An innocent life is worth equal irrelevant of who they are. Israel's maths has been somewhat skewed for decades in that regard.

If all the terrorists are removed from Gaza and the West Bank and without support from other Arab states, Israel will take the land without doubt. It's just talk when Western countries say they want a 2 state solution, they've done nothing about it of note for years!

I disagree with apologists, who want to present day Britain to apologise for what our forefathers did, especially the empire and so on. However we have to face up to the actions taken back then and where we have influenced what is happening in the world today.

In most of our lifetimes we've seen us go into wars, debatable if they were legal, without a single idea what to do at the end. We jump in with the USA. A country of the free, run by madmen, and supposedly the super power in the world for good. A country that's never won a single war on its own let alone the peace the other side.

Hard to disagree with any of this

 

[Bakero]

Could you point me to the demos staged by those in favour of wiping Israel off the map? Only demos I've seen have been in favour of a Palestinian state.

In the Hamas Charter:-
Article Eleven:

The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up.

There were demonstrators openly supporting Hamas and waving Hamas flags, thereby advocating the elimination of Israel.

Hamas didn't organise the demos though, did they? Nor did the vast majority show support for them. I've found a story about one man who was waving a black and white Shahada flag while shouting Hamas and racist abuse. Obviously, he was promptly arrested.

Aside from that Police said there had been “pockets of disorder and some instances of hate speech” but “the majority of the protest activity has been lawful and has taken place without incident.”

For someone purporting to be balanced you seem eager to misrepresent the demos and defend the IDF.

 

[Bozza]

As a point of order, can people please stop drawing comparisons between Israel's actions and the Nazis.

Regardless of intent, given the horrendous atrocities inflicted on Jewish people by the Nazis, you should find it possible to contribute to this conversation without needing to use that comparison.

 

[wellquickwoody]

Yes, you could easily make numerous, less offensive comparisons but you continually use the Nazi comparison, why?

The International Holocaust Alliance disagrees with you as do the 43 UN member countries including the UK who have all adopted or endorsed their working definition of antisemitism including drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.

I would hope at least some of the Mods are less interested in your trolling and more concerned about more serious ramifications for you and this site.

Harley Street doctor compares Israel to Nazis as she posts picture of swastika next to state flag

Cosmetics procedures specialist reported to police over online comments following bombing of Gaza in response to Hamas massacre

www.telegraph.co.uk

43 UN member countries, so less than half then?

 

[Seagull58]

I tried asking @Wokeworrier this exact question, but he seems unable to answer



So why do you think Israel funded the set up of Hamas way back in 1998 when the charter that you quote was actually written?

The Charter was written in 1988, not 1998

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

https://www.nam.ac.uk/explore/conflict-Palestine

National Army Museum article.

Interestingly gives a basic overview of Britain's involvement but also the use of the term terrorism.

 

[WATFORD zero]

The Charter was written in 1988, not 1998

So why did Israel fund Hamas when they were writing this ?

 

[Seagull58]

Hamas didn't organise the demos though, did they? Nor did the vast majority show support for them. I've found a story about one man who was waving a black and white Shahada flag while shouting Hamas and racist abuse. Obviously, he was promptly arrested.

Aside from that Police said there had been “pockets of disorder and some instances of hate speech” but “the majority of the protest activity has been lawful and has taken place without incident.”

For someone purporting to be balanced you seem eager to misrepresent the demos and defend the IDF.

Is your post addressed to me? If so, I agree absolutely that Hamas didn't organise the demos but there were Hamas supporters there and the Hamas Charter calls for the destruction of Israel.
I didn't misrepresent the demos. I said there were Hamas supporters there.

 

[Bakero]

Is your post addressed to me? If so, I agree absolutely that Hamas didn't organise the demos but there were Hamas supporters there.

I even quoted the post you replied to make it obvious. @GT49er said the demos were "staged by those in favour of wiping Israel off the map". @Westdene Seagull asked which demos they were and you replied with an extract from the Hamas Charter and a comment about flags.