[News] Hamas/Gaza/Israel

[Seagull58]

Could you post your evidence for this. I have done a quick search and found this https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67144061 (looks like this was posted earlier too). A quick scan suggests the evidence is inconclusive and that the explosion happened in a courtyard rather than car park.

Maybe I have found an earlier article?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-671644061

There was another BBC report I saw that geolocated the ground explosion to the carpark/courtyard but I cannot find where that is stated.

 

[Krafty]

Analysing sources is a key skill and helps strengthen your evaluation of the evidence.

I read BBC News as I think it is typically a credible source but I read other sources for different views - whilst others may have a completely different selection of sources from me, which is also completely fine.

 

[BadFish]

2 minute job And tbf after seeing it you can’t help but think there is an element of possibility in it, assuming you have an open mind

Had a quick look and yeah it's interesting. Wonder if it was later than the article I posted and more info from their weapons experts has come to light.

There is certainly a large element of possibility. But really, until anything was confirmed their always was. That's why I was asking Seagull58 to share the evidence that made him so sure.

 

[Seagull58]

ok you might have a point if the death toll is not 500. Certainly it was likely the worst atrocity and biggest violation of international law if Israel is bombing a hospital and then lying about doing it. Also its a long conflict isnt it it didnt begin 2 weeks ago.

You have forgotten Russia's ongoing invasion of Ukraine very quickly.

 

[Seagull58]

Had a quick look and yeah it's interesting. Wonder if it was later than the article I posted and more info from their weapons experts has come to light.

There is certainly a large element of possibility. But really, until anything was confirmed their always was. That's why I was asking Seagull58 to share the evidence that made him so sure.

The video showing the rocket partially exploding in mid-air, then exploding on the ground, combined with the lack of a bomb crater but many incinerated cars, combined with the geo-locating of the ground explosion and the multiple expert opinions, combined with the fact that hospital windows were broken but there was minimal other damage to the hospital, combined with the fact that Hamas' evidence was pictures of dead bodies, which could have come from anywhere, but no rocket pieces and no pictures of a damaged hospital.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I don’t disbelieve anything. I need actual evidence to lay blame, so far, I’ve seen no evidence to support either sides claim.

So, instead of rushing to blame one side or another, I’d rather sit on the fence.

You may not like it, but quite frankly I don’t give a shit.

Hamas started the present escalation.

If you don't see that, I pity your poor overburdened fence.

 

[dangull]

Must be true if it’s on the BBC. Not really evidence of anything is it.

C4 news which seem more independent than the BBC government news was leaning strongly that it was an Israeli bomb. Apparently, they could tell which direction it came from, completely at odds from what the Israeli's said in there so called evidence, and also the audio video of the Palestinians talking about it that it was from their side was faked.

 

[Seagull58]

What fascinates me is the continued belief by so many that somehow the US can broker some kind of peace deal. Even their Democrat leader goes to Israel and uses the term 'the other team'
Yes, true that they hold considerable influence on any Israeli Government, but short of the US refusing to continue to fund Israeli aggression, nothing is going to change.

Can anyone seriously put up an argument denying what Noam Chomsky calls...'the last phase of European colonisation' ?

I have to agree. It seems to me that all the Israeli settlements must be removed from disputed territory before any good faith negotiations can start.

 

[BadFish]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-671644061

There was another BBC report I saw that geolocated the ground explosion to the carpark/courtyard but I cannot find where that is stated.

Thanks for the link, I'll have a look after work.

 

[Seagull58]

What fascinates me is the continued belief by so many that somehow the US can broker some kind of peace deal. Even their Democrat leader goes to Israel and uses the term 'the other team'
Yes, true that they hold considerable influence on any Israeli Government, but short of the US refusing to continue to fund Israeli aggression, nothing is going to change.

Can anyone seriously put up an argument denying what Noam Chomsky calls...'the last phase of European colonisation' ?

I took several business trips to Israel in the early 2000's and had several meetings with IDF Generals and retired Generals. One of the difficulties they have is approximately half a million ultra-orthodox jews who don't work but spend all their time in religious study. They will simply not countenance anything that compromises their objective of an orthodox Jewish state covering all the historical Jewish land (going back several thousand years).

 

[1066familyman]

I have to agree. It seems to me that all the Israeli settlements must be removed from disputed territory before any good faith negotiations can start.

Unfortunately I really can't see any end to it at all. All the borders of the countries in that region were basically drawn up by Britain and France (well, plus Turkey to an extent later on) in various conferences. The League of Nations and later the UN are involved too of course, but even a cursory knowledge of history tells us just how independent those organisations are.

There's still no Kurdistan even, after that promise was repeatedly given then snatched away. So it's not only the Palestinians that have been seriously f***ed over by history. The whole region is a bloody mess unfortunately.

The only real solution is for competing super powers to pull out, which they won't because there's too much at stake, and moderates come to power in Israel and the OPT's and negotiate a two state solution. Then good luck keeping that solution going! Rabin and Sedat already paid the price for any attempts at some sort of peace.

 

[SeagullinExile]

Hamas started the present escalation.

If you don't see that, I pity your poor overburdened fence.

And?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

And?

And it is time you wiped the tomato sauce off you fake Tony Blair face.

I smell a tory, or a Corbynista. Which is pretty much the same thing these days. No compromise with the electorate, etc.

 

[SeagullinExile]

C4 news which seem more independent than the BBC government news was leaning strongly that it was an Israeli bomb. Apparently, they could tell which direction it came from, completely at odds from what the Israeli's said in there so called evidence, and also the audio video of the Palestinians talking about it that it was from their side was faked.

Yes. But still no evidence either way tbh. But the C4 article is interesting, plus Israel do have form for making claims like this. Unfortunately, I don’t think we’ll ever find out the truth.

 

[SeagullinExile]

And it is time you wiped the tomato sauce off you fake Tony Blair face.

I smell a tory, or a Corbynista. Which is pretty much the same thing these days. No compromise with the lectorate, etc.

Awww... bless.

 

[Bozza]

Enough, please.

 

[Mental Lental]

Analysing sources is a key skill and helps strengthen your evaluation of the evidence.

I read BBC News as I think it is typically a credible source but I read other sources for different views - whilst others may have a completely different selection of sources from me, which is also completely fine.

I disagree. Many of the problems with modern political discourse stem from a misguided sense of false equivalence when it comes to quality of sources.

 

[mile oak]

Tottenham fans pictured waving Israel flags during their clash against Fulham despite Premier Leagu… https://mol.im/a/12663379 via https://dailym.ai/android

Lets hope we see none of thisThursday. Respect the ban which really could be extended to all flags except the nation of the competing country, be in PL EFL Euro FA Cup the lot. Will THFC be punished. Yeah definately or it gives others the go ahead.

 

[Hamilton]

The interview with Sharone Lifschitz at 8.15am on R4 Today is extraordinary.

Her mother has just been released. Her father is still held hostage.

 

[Zeberdi]

Good news

Two more hostages held in Gaza released

The ICRC says two hostages held by Hamas were transported out of Gaza on Monday evening.

www.bbc.co.uk