[News] Hamas/Gaza/Israel

[kojak]

Ultra-Zionist settler-nutters attacking their Israeli Arab neighbours in the next village should have the full weight of the law applied against then in a civilised democracy. Oh hang on, that doesn't apply in that f*rked-up landscape. In fact the shooters will be more often than not aided and abetted by the military.

Honestly, I deep down want to be believe that Israel are the good guys. But so often they make it so f***ing hard to give them the benefit of the doubt

Someone said today
If hamas and hezbolla laid down there arms,there would be peace
If the Israelis laid down there arms,the state of Israel would be wiped out

Many posts on here referencing historical events
Not much use today
It's the present and future that needs to be addressed

 

[Wokeworrier]

Not sure why you posted this image but mentioning the G word in any banner relating to this issue is a tad problematic/crass.

 

[Wokeworrier]

Someone said today
If hamas and hezbolla laid down there arms,there would be peace
If the Israelis laid down there arms,the state of Israel would be wiped out

Many posts on here referencing historical events
Not much use today
It's the present and future that needs to be addressed

Yeah, but you have to pretend both sides are equally awful so you can have a progressive balanced online debate ....

 

[A1X]

Someone said today
If hamas and hezbolla laid down there arms,there would be peace
If the Israelis laid down there arms,the state of Israel would be wiped out

I’m not so sure that’s correct, Israel has displayed plenty of expansionist tendencies of it’s own (as per the video posted earlier today with Israelis literally taking Palestinians homes right now)

 

[Zeberdi]

Someone said today
If hamas and hezbolla laid down there arms,there would be peace
If the Israelis laid down there arms,the state of Israel would be wiped out

Many posts on here referencing historical events
Not much use today
It's the present and future that needs to be addressed

That’s what I and most of the other posts have been doing.

The historical contexts matter - without them you can not possibly begin to understand the dynamics of the Middle East and why glib statements as you’ve quoted above are simply not true as well as being extremely naive. If Hamas and Hezbollah laid down their arms, other Jhadist groups would spring up in their place - you can’t bomb an ideology into non-existence - and you certainly can’t keep millions of people under a system of Oppression without them rising up against you. Morsi’s Egypt and the rule of the Muslim Brotherhood is an example of that. Hamas was part of the Muslim Brotherhood originally- when the PLO renounced violence and became the Palestinian Authority, other terrorist groups infiltrated into the OPT and in Gaza particularly, gained influence and arms - Israel will never lay down her arms because it is inbuilt in the psyche of Israel to defend herself against her Arab neighbours and has been from the day of her conception- Netanyahu’s government is not looking for peace but to annex more and more of Palestine into Israel.

 

[Zeberdi]

Not sure why you posted this image but mentioning the G word in any banner relating to this issue is a tad problematic/crass.

Because it was a news item on Sky News today - I made no comment as to the value or appropriateness of the banner. You’re tilting your windmill at the wrong person here.

 

[Wokeworrier]

Because it was a news item on Sky News today - I made no comment as to the value or appropriateness of the banner. You’re tilting your windmill at the wrong person here.

Mmmmm, there are numerous images about this conflict. I doubt many people select one and bother posting it on a football forum without having an opinion/angle on it. What's yours?

 

[Zeberdi]

Mmmmm, there are numerous images about this conflict. I doubt many people select one and bother posting it on a football forum without having an opinion/angle on it. What's yours?

To post a news item related to the conflict that also had a football angle - no ulterior motive, religious, political or otherwise.

 

[Wokeworrier]

To post a news item related to the conflict.

There are hundreds of news items, what made you pick this particular one?

What's your opinion of the wording of the banner?

BTW genuine questions not having a go at you in any way.

 

[WATFORD zero]

To post a news item related to the conflict.

I really wouldn't bother if I was you. This account simply trolls on here, has more duplicate accounts, more extreme views, posts far less on football (or any subject other than trolling) and is actually less mature than the one that has just flounced. If you didn't know better, you would think it may be a genetic trait

 

[aolstudios]

Someone said today
If hamas and hezbolla laid down there arms,there would be peace
If the Israelis laid down there arms,the state of Israel would be wiped out

Many posts on here referencing historical events
Not much use today
It's the present and future that needs to be addressed

Exactly this.
There's no equivalence

 

[Wardy's twin]

That’s what I and most of the other posts have been doing.

The historical contexts matter - without them you can not possibly begin to understand the dynamics of the Middle East and why glib statements as you’ve quoted above are simply not true as well as being extremely naive. If Hamas and Hezbollah laid down their arms, other Jhadist groups would spring up in their place - you can’t bomb an ideology into non-existence - and you certainly can’t keep millions of people under a system of Oppression without them rising up against you. Morsi’s Egypt and the rule of the Muslim Brotherhood is an example of that. Hamas was part of the Muslim Brotherhood originally- when the PLO renounced violence and became the Palestinian Authority, other terrorist groups infiltrated into the OPT and in Gaza particularly, gained influence and arms - Israel will never lay down her arms because it is inbuilt in the psyche of Israel to defend herself against her Arab neighbours and has been from the day of her conception- Netanyahu’s government is not looking for peace but to annex more and more of Palestine into Isra

To me the problem reduces if you improve the conditions for the majority of Palestinians and try to isolate support for HAMAS and Hezbollah.

So onus has to be on Israel (coerced by US) to sort out the settlers and sort out political rights of the Palestinians and improve their standard of living. That can be done without having to solve what to do about a Palestinian state , at least in the short term. This is not an easy task but it's the only way any sort of peace can brought about. First step has to be for the US to convince Israel to drop Netanyahu...

What to do with Gaza.... I don't have any answers but if they see the west bank prosper they might drop the support of Hamas but that will need Israel to then bolster Fatah.

 

[Zeberdi]

Exactly this.
There's no equivalence

Based on what evidence though ? - it’s a myth that had Hamas or Hezbollah laid down their arms we’d have Peace - I keep trying to demonstrate that there are extremists on both sides here, both Israeli and Jihadists that have thwarted efforts to bring a peaceful solution to Israeli’s years of Occupation. Did you know, the closest any Israeli Prime Minister has come in forging a peaceful settlement with the Palestinian leadership was Yitzak Rabin in 1993 who abandoned the use of military force in the Occupied Territories to engage in talks with PLO leader Yasser Arafat - They agreed to a peace process that had been drawn up in Norway, to withdraw from the Occupied Territories and grant the Palestinians the right to self-determination and ultimately an independent state with limited self-rule in the interim - the PLO in turn would recognise Israel’s right to exist and also renounce violence - that process was called the Oslo Accords and it set up the Palestinian Authority for Palestinian self-rule which operates in the West Bank today.

Do you know why the Oslo Accords failed to find a lasting peace?

- because within months of signing them, Hamas had distanced itself from the Palestinian Authority and started a string of suicide bombings - Rabin’s Labour Government was undermined by Hamas but was also hit by a wave of hostility from right wing Israeli’s who felt betrayed by the Oslo Accords - including several extremist Rabbis who opined that it would be acceptable to murder Yitzak Rabin - eventually Yitzak Rabin was assassinated in 1995 by a far right Jewish religious extremist. Labour lost the following General Election and Netanyahu’s far right Likud Party was elected. Under Netanyahu, it is Religious Zionist extremism as well as radical Islamic extremism that are the stumbling blocks to peace. Just disarming Hamas will not bring peace - Hamas are not alone, Hezbollah are also involved who have networks throughout the Middle East and State funded by the entire Axis of Resistance (Lebanon, Syria and Iran) as well as Turkey and Qatar and the Global Muslim Brotherhood network.

Unfortunately, after years of violent settlement expansion, the idea of a two state solution that involves Israel pulling back to her 1967 boundaries is unrealistic as is trying to fight Islamic Jihad ideology by flattening Gaza.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I really wouldn't bother if I was you. This account simply trolls on here, has more duplicate accounts, more extreme views, posts far less on football (or any subject other than trolling) and is actually less mature than the one that has just flounced. If you didn't know better, you would think it may be a genetic trait

Mmmmm, there are numerous images about this conflict. I doubt many people select one and bother posting it on a football forum without having an opinion/angle on it. What's yours?

@Wokeworrier - This is a thread about the conflict in Gaza on a football forum. The banner was prominent at a derby game live on TV. I’d have been amazed if someone didn’t post it.

Beyond that can I please remind people about @Bozza ‘s request to play the ball. If you want continued access to this and the other political threads this will be the last bit of ad hominem

 

[borat]

March on Saturday was really well attended with estimated attendance ranging from above 100k (Sky news) to 300k (organisers).

There was a real mix of ages and races attending. Speakers included many Unions including Teaching, Fire brigade and RMT union representatives (Eddie Dempsey), and Husam Zomlot (Palestinian Ambassador to the UK), Corbyn and John McDonnell

It was good to be amongst (for the main) like minded people who want a ceasefire, an end to the slaughter / form of ethnic cleansing currently taking place in Gaza. From a long term the speeches demanded an end to decades of barbaric oppression/apartheid of the Palestinian people and security for Israeli citizens.

Whilst the turnout was amazing, my view is that nothing will materially change unless the UK and US stop supporting the Israeli government unconditionally (extremely unlikely). Bernie Sanders has in the past suggested withholding US aid to Israel ( a staggering 14 billion dollars annually) but his influence is limited.

 

[Titanic]

IDF says 320 targets struck in Gaza over last day​

Israeli forces have attacked 320 targets across the Gaza Strip in the last day, according to the Israel Defense Forces (IDF).
Posting on X, formerly Twitter, the IDF says it targeted Hamas infrastructure, including tunnels and operational headquarters.
It also says it hit positions that could "endanger" its forces being prepared for "manoeuvre" - that is, a ground invasion - in the Gaza Strip.
In a separate update on its activity in northern Israel, the IDF says its forces struck four Hezbollah cells on the border with Lebanon.


Israel’s Defence Minister Yoav Gallant says the military’s campaign in Gaza "may take a month, two or three, but at the end there will be no more Hamas".

Gallant was speaking after operational briefing at the Israeli Air Force Operations Command and Control Centre.

“In terms of the operational aspects of manoeuvring, at the end of the day, nothing will stop the IDF (Israel Defence Forces)", he said.
"This should be our last manoeuvring operation in Gaza, for the simple reason that afterwards there will be no more Hamas."

The minister expressed his appreciation to the air force and said the next stage, a widely-anticipated ground operation, "will come soon".
How soon remains unclear.
In the next two days, visits are expected from the Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte and the French President Emmanuel Macron.

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So, despite Israel committing to months of bloodshed and the eventual eradication of Hamas... the Western leaders are still queuing up to support Israel.

 

[nicko31]

March on Saturday was really well attended with estimated attendance ranging from above 100k (Sky news) to 300k (organisers).

There was a real mix of ages and races attending. Speakers included many Unions including Teaching, Fire brigade and RMT union representatives (Eddie Dempsey), and Husam Zomlot (Palestinian Ambassador to the UK), Corbyn and John McDonnell

It was good to be amongst (for the main) like minded people who want a ceasefire, an end to the slaughter / form of ethnic cleansing currently taking place in Gaza. From a long term the speeches demanded an end to decades of barbaric oppression/apartheid of the Palestinian people and security for Israeli citizens.

Whilst the turnout was amazing, my view is that nothing will materially change unless the UK and US stop supporting the Israeli government unconditionally (extremely unlikely). Bernie Sanders has in the past suggested withholding US aid to Israel ( a staggering 14 billion dollars annually) but his influence is limited.

But but one person shouted "jihad" so Suella starts piping up

 

[nicko31]

This was the late Gerard Kaufman speaking in 2009.



And here we are again...

 

[carlzeiss]

March on Saturday was really well attended with estimated attendance ranging from above 100k (Sky news) to 300k (organisers).

There was a real mix of ages and races attending. Speakers included many Unions including Teaching, Fire brigade and RMT union representatives (Eddie Dempsey), and Husam Zomlot (Palestinian Ambassador to the UK), Corbyn and John McDonnell

It was good to be amongst (for the main) like minded people who want a ceasefire, an end to the slaughter / form of ethnic cleansing currently taking place in Gaza. From a long term the speeches demanded an end to decades of barbaric oppression/apartheid of the Palestinian people and security for Israeli citizens.

Whilst the turnout was amazing, my view is that nothing will materially change unless the UK and US stop supporting the Israeli government unconditionally (extremely unlikely). Bernie Sanders has in the past suggested withholding US aid to Israel ( a staggering 14 billion dollars annually) but his influence is limited.

Were there any speeches or banners calling for the unconditional release of the hostages held by Hamas ?

 

[Zeberdi]

Israel’s Defence Minister Yoav Gallant says the military’s campaign in Gaza "may take a month, two or three …
“In terms of the operational aspects of manoeuvring, at the end of the day, nothing will stop the IDF (Israel Defence Forces)", he said.
"This should be our last manoeuvring operation in Gaza, for the simple reason that afterwards there will be no more Hamas."

- he means ‘for the simple reason that afterwards there will be no more Gaza’ of course

Other updates outside Gaza:

Israel fired rockets into a refugee camp in the West Bank over the weekend, targeting a mosque as tensions get worse amid increasing violence in West Bank

Israel strikes mosque in occupied West Bank refugee camp

Palestinian officials say two people were killed in the attack on Al-Ansar mosque.

www.aljazeera.com

Increasing rocket attacks into Lebanon over the weekend and more Israeli towns evacuated on the Lebanese border

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/22/world/middleeast/israel-evacuations-lebanon-hezbollah-gaza.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

Rockets fired from Syria into Israel last week and continue to be exchanged

https://www.rudaw.net/english/middleeast/11102023

- continued bombardment of Gaza is leading Israel (and possibly her allies if they need to defend her) deeper into to a war that is already being fought on 4 fronts.