[News] Hamas/Gaza/Israel

[aolstudios]

You’ve ignored my warning. I won’t give any more.

I hear you @Bozza .
Sorry but I felt having taken the initial abuse at least one reply was fair

 

[sparkie]

Enough vengeance now. Time to stop.

 

[fly high]

Imagine someone just stealing your house with impunity.

The man & women obviously know each other, his view is the government is not only allowing this but encouraging it so someone is going to steal her house so why not him. I despair that successive Israeli governments have done this, presumably in the full knowledge it will always be a barrier to peace.

 

[fly high]

Yep - not only are civilians the unacceptable ‘collateral damage’ of this war but for all sides, they have become its currency too …bartered by protagonists in attempts to alter the trajectory of the fighting

I always read your posts with great interest for your knowledge of the hows & whys of this ongoing conflict. I recently read a piece written by a Muslim women (think she was Somali) who says she was taught at school & in the mosque to hate all Jews. Has this been part of the Muslim religion for centuries or is it just since the State of Israel can into existence.

 

[raymondo]

These news reports of incidents in the OPT and how the IDF monitor them and violence by Jewish settlers to Palestinians have been going on since Israel illegally occupied remaining land of Palestine after the 1967 war (that was not included the 1948 State of Israel) then started a programme of de facto annexation of those lands to Israel by building settlements on them - The violence with which they have defended those settlements and the brutality with which they have destroyed Palestinian homes as forms of collective punishments is shocking - ( I posted numerous links to all this stuff much earlier in the thread - if people read them, they would be shocked )

West Bank: Entire Palestinian communities disappeared due to Israeli settler violence

Israeli settler violence and illegal takeover of Palestinian lands have forcibly transferred nearly 500 Palestinians from seven communities, over the past 20 months. Twelve families in the Ras At-T...

www.nrc.no

What is news is that Israel’s treatment to the Palestine people is being more widely reported in the mainstream media and IMO - that is one of the best antidotes to radicalisation in the long run - the non-violent proponents of the Palestinian cause need that platform to counter the years of being demonised as the sole cause of violence in the Occupied Territories. Religious Zionist influences in Israeli politics, especially under Netanyahu, who will gradually loose the one-sided PR battle that has been launched against the Palestine people when it his own policies in managing Hamas are exposed to be underpinned by a common goal with Hamas - ie not wanting a two state solution but an expansion of Israel. Hamas because it has a radical jihadist agenda of destroying Israel that is doesn’t share with the Palestinian authority…

Before They Vowed to Annihilate Hamas, Israeli Officials Considered It an Asset

Hamas has long offered Israel an alibi to avoid abiding by its supposed commitment to Palestinian statehood.

theintercept.com

Dialogue and political exposure and ‘truth’ is the only roadmap to a lasting peace IMO - It’s becoming clear to most of us now that years of far right extremism in Israeli politics and increasing muslim radicalism in the Occupied Territories has just radicalised into even more violent ways of living with the territorial disputes. As such, Israel has a major security problem largely of her own making - there’s a very real risk that Hezbollah, Hamas, the Palestinian Islamic Jihads are, in a way they never have before, beginning to unite together against Israel inside the Occupied Territories of the West Bank and Gaza and the Golan Heights like a cancer that is becoming increasingly to difficult to remove.

That’s why I for one, am very grateful to Bozza for allowing an honest and frank debate on NSC on these very emotive issues and horrendous war (and the time spent having to moderate it so our ‘peace talks don’t break down’ ). I guess I actually see what we are doing here is more than just ‘debate’ amongst a bunch of football supporters - I see it as part of what is needed globally - good, honest and informed discussion among the general populations and on the media if we are to hold our leaders truly accountable …for that to happen, truth first of all needs to prevail.

As you say, it's been happening for decades, but becoming more intense, and better reported in the mainstream media because of the current conflict.
IF this conflict gets resolved, the reporting of such events in the West Bank will sadly fade again.

 

[Bakero]

I always read your posts with great interest for your knowledge of the hows & whys of this ongoing conflict. I recently read a piece written by a Muslim women (think she was Somali) who says she was taught at school & in the mosque to hate all Jews. Has this been part of the Muslim religion for centuries or is it just since the State of Israel can into existence.

There have been clashes since the birth of Islam in the 7th century but the Israel issue is central to modern enmity. Historically, well looking back to the middle-ages, Jews had a better time of it in the Muslim world than in Christian countries.

In Spain, the Jewish population was burgeoning until the Visigoths joined the Catholic church and persecution began. For that reason, the Jews welcomed Arab rule and really flourished in Moorish time (notwithstanding a few incidents). Obviously, after the reconquista they were all booted out or forced to convert.

 

[fly high]

There have been clashes since the birth of Islam in the 7th century but the Israel issue is central to modern enmity. Historically, well looking back to the middle-ages, Jews had a better time of it in the Muslim world than in Christian countries.

In Spain, the Jewish population was burgeoning until the Visigoths joined the Catholic church and persecution began. For that reason, the Jews welcomed Arab rule and really flourished in Moorish time (notwithstanding a few incidents). Obviously, after the reconquista they were all booted out or forced to convert.

Thanks for the info.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Enough vengeance now. Time to stop.

Sadly its not even started

 

[aolstudios]

I always read your posts with great interest for your knowledge of the hows & whys of this ongoing conflict. I recently read a piece written by a Muslim women (think she was Somali) who says she was taught at school & in the mosque to hate all Jews. Has this been part of the Muslim religion for centuries or is it just since the State of Israel can into existence.

There were Pograms & massacres of Jews for centuries before

 

[Bakero]

Thanks for the info.

I'll try to elaborate a bit if I have time tomorrow. Had to write this quick as we were about to kick off.

 

[Zeberdi]

had this been part of the Muslim religion for centuries or is it just since the State of Israel can into existence.

Specifically with regard to Islam itself as a religion - What we in the West think we see as Islamic ‘fundamentalism’ has been around as long as the Qur’an and the teachings of Mohammed in the C7th - but definitions vary to what actually constitutes ‘fundamentalism’ and even suggesting that Islam teaches antisemitism is highly debatable and very very contentious.

Debunking the Extremist Myth That Islam is Anti-Jewish

New bus ads in DC say the Qu'ran promotes Jew-hatred. It's a meritless, dangerous accusation.

time.com

History is replete with periods where all the main Monotheistic faiths, have appropriated scripture for political purposes for centuries and used it as a justification for war (as @Bakero touched on above)

But as regard terrorism - schools throughout the Middle East that are under the control of fundamental Islamist Jihadists - the Taliban schools in Afghanistan, Hezbollah schools in Lebanon etc not only teach religious hatred of the Jews but also all non-Muslims and radicalises those teachings into various forms of violent Jihadism. But that is not a version of Islam that the majority of Muslims the World over would recognise.

Is Islam Anti-Semitic?

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Ultra-Zionist settler-nutters attacking their Israeli Arab neighbours in the next village should have the full weight of the law applied against then in a civilised democracy. Oh hang on, that doesn't apply in that f*rked-up landscape. In fact the shooters will be more often than not aided and abetted by the military.

Honestly, I deep down want to be believe that Israel are the good guys. But so often they make it so f***ing hard to give them the benefit of the doubt

 

[Zeberdi]

There were Pograms & massacres of Jews for centuries before

As there were thousands of Muslims and Jews in the Crusades by Christians which lasted for several centuries and which led to a destruction of their holy sites. Muslims were referred to as the ‘infidels’ btw

 

[Bakero]

I think it the question was directed at me but thanks for jumping in and providing some historical context!

I'm sure it was Zeb, seeing as his question was posed in a reply to you, but I thought he'd probably appreciate info from others too

 

[Zeberdi]

I'm sure it was Zeb, seeing as his question was posed in a reply to you, but I thought he'd probably appreciate info from others too

I didn’t want people to think I was jumping in over your replies and trying to dominate the conversation with my apparently ‘bias lefty views‘ again - so was just saying because it wasn’t clear , that I was answering a question that had been put to me directly- I’m sure he appreciated your efforts too because he thanked you for it as did I

 

[Zeberdi]

 

[Scappa]

I think maybe its time God stepped in and saved everyone from themselves

 

[Zeberdi]

I think maybe its time God stepped in and saved everyone from themselves

Or an alien invasion would be quite timely

 

[sparkie]

I think maybe its time God stepped in and saved everyone from themselves

For sure.

Enough already.

No more.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Very moving personal story from Rushdi Abualouf, BBC correspondent and Gaza resident

Rushdi Abualouf: My daughters beg for Gaza City return - but our old lives are over

The BBC's Rushdi Abualouf describes his family narrowly avoiding a drone attack - and being displaced four times in 15 days.

www.bbc.co.uk