[News] Hamas/Gaza/Israel

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Protesting? Or throwing rocks and petrol bombs? You can do an awful lot of damage with those. And many of the IDF will be seriously spooked teenage conscripts with minimal training. Not saying it's right at all, just saying the response is maybe understandable

Indeed. This will never end when every single event is turned by some into a justification for everything else. It isn't and never was. On both sides.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Many Thanks to everyone who have made very well informed, balanced, educated, well considered and researched, whilst still passionate and honest posts on the actual subject of this thread.

Looks like that has finished now, so I'll dip out with my thanks

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Can people leave the childish name calling, for another time and thread, please.

 

[Wellesley]

Many Thanks to everyone who have made very well informed, balanced, educated, well considered and researched, whilst still passionate and honest posts on the actual subject of this thread.

Looks like that has finished now, so I'll dip out with my thanks

Thanks for that. It's nice to be appreciated.

 

[Krafty]

Thanks for that. It's nice to be appreciated.

Are you going to provide any useful information which is relevant to the Israel-Palestinian conflict?

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Thanks for that. It's nice to be appreciated.

With the greatest respect you're offering nothing please go and annoy others

 

[Justice]

Can people leave the childish name calling, for another time and thread, please.

More chance of peace in the Middle East than that happening

 

[Perry Milkins]

Nitwit

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

With the greatest respect you're offering nothing please go and annoy others

He's learned from his master and has given you an ironic thumbs up.

Sorry if childish name calling offends, but there are some very sad people posting on this and other threads. From my parents' mindset era. I am not sure that calling these sorts our is childish name calling but I shall leave that for a mod to ponder.

 

[1066familyman]

Oh this will be interesting, but I think you will find it is the British's fault for not consulting everyone before subdividing the land, that was not ours to do so with in the first place, bloody British eh.

Quite. This is an interesting watch on the British involvement from 1917 - 48 which is a pretty crucial time period for what we see today. Of course, there's much more nuance than this to the whole situation so it's by no means a definitive explanation. It's worth reading the comments section of this video too for some deeper historical analysis and view points.

 

[knocky1]

In August I swam in the sea for a world event that highlighted how Palestinians were caged in by Israel. My heart bleeds for them.

 

[Is it PotG?]

Takes all sorts I guess

 

[Bakero]

Takes all sorts I guess

Care to elaborate on why you've shared an 8 year old video?

 

[aolstudios]

Takes all sorts I guess

Awful old bastard. A Jew hater to his bones

 

[Is it PotG?]

Care to elaborate on why you've shared an 8 year old video?

Not really no.

The content of the rant though, I felt more than relevant.

 

[Zeberdi]

Many Thanks to everyone who have made very well informed, balanced, educated, well considered and researched, whilst still passionate and honest posts on the actual subject of this thread.

Looks like that has finished now, so I'll dip out with my thanks

Can I please ask you to reconsider? It’s only participation from those who have posted moderate and well-balanced views to date, like yourself, or at least come to the Palestinian question open+minded - that has stopped this thread being pulled too much in one direction or the other and therefore descending into a childish slagging match - I said right at the beginning of the thread that I thought it is important to have debate and discussion and I still feel that but that won’t happen unless we stay on a well balanced trajectory which requires input from posters like yourself! (Reading the room lately, it can’t be too much of me anymore!)

Fatah controls the West Bank, from a Palestinian standpoint, but Hamas does have a presence there.
The deaths usually occur when demonstrators throw rocks and petrol bombs.

I do enjoy these threads because tend to learn more about an important subject. From what I understand Israel say the war is only against Hamas. I heard an interview who I admit seemed anti Israel saying over the years many have been killed in the Westbank where there are no Hamas. To those more knowledgeable Is this true and why

Most of what people need to know about the historical and Political framework to these issues, including timelines of peace processes, have been posted on the thread - including links to some key documents - the issues are very complex and in modern times, the conflict has its source in a more imperialistic, post-colonial, period of British history as @Psychobilly freakout mentioned above, The UN was in its infancy the world had woken up to the full horrors of the Holocaust - the world was not the same in 1948 as it is today - which is why I suggest starting with page one of this thread if you really want to make it easier for yourself to digest and just read through some of the links that have been posted along the way - I promise you will gain enough understanding that you will be able to make your own value judgments about the War.

Re Hamas - @Seagull is right - The West Bank has been under the rule of the Western friendly Palestinian Authority, (PA) since 1993, when Clinton, the then Palestinian Liberation Organisation, under Yasser Arrafat and PLO negotiator (and now PA leader) Abbas Mahmoud and Yitzshak Rabin signed the Oslo Peace Accords (part 1) - The PLO renounced violence and were no longer designated a terrorist organisation- The Oslo agreement created a self-ruling body jointly for the West Bank and Gaza - Hamas and Fatah were the elected two majority parties that formed the Palestinian Authority but they parted company on ideological grounds in 2005/6, Hamas becoming more radicalised took over Gaza by violently defeating Fatah members which left the PA, with Abbas as its leader to ruling over the West Bank while Hamas ruled over Gaza with a power that has not been mandated since by popular vote/election.

What Is Hamas?

The Palestinian militant group struggled to govern the Gaza Strip before launching a surprise attack on Israel in 2023. Now facing Israel’s military campaign to destroy it, Hamas’s future is in doubt…

www.cfr.org

Yitzshak Rabin was assassinated in 1995 by Yigal Amir, “an Israeli who opposed the Oslo Accords on religious grounds. Rabin’s murder was followed by a string of terrorist attacks by Hamas, which undermined support for the Labor Party in Israel’s May 1996 elections. New Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu hailed from the Likud Party, which had historically opposed Palestinian statehood and withdrawal from the occupied territories.” Netanyanhu has recently formed coalition support from the Religious Zionists (who also oppose Palestinian Statehood) and members of the Likud Party.

Milestones in the History of U.S. Foreign Relations - Office of the Historian

history.state.gov 3.0 shell

history.state.gov

While Hamas has a presence in the West Bank it’s resistance activities have, since the separation in 2005/6 largely been suppressed by the PA working glove in hand with Israel - however Hamas, along with every other terrorist group in the region, including the Palestinian Islamic Jihadists (PIJ) (who are among the suspects for bombing the hospital) have been enjoying a resurgence in the West Bank as a result of Hezbollah (State-sponsored by Iran/Lebanon/Syria) having had increasing insurgency in the West Bank and Gaza - bringing arms into the area, recruiting and forming coalitions with other smaller terrorist groups operating in the Occupied territories and through global networks-

This makes for disturbing reading and goes some way to explain the dynamics of the current conflict

Hezbollah and Iran have opened a fourth battlefront: Inside Israel

Critical as recent developments may prove, they obscure a more dangerous Hezbollah initiative to establish a proxy foothold inside Israel.

www.atlanticcouncil.org

As far as deaths in the West Bank, it has been largely children, imprisoned and beaten for throwing stones - the only tool for unarmed resistance against the Occupation

New research reveals ongoing violence of Palestinian children detained

Palestinian children in the Israeli military detention system face physical and emotional abuse according to new research by Save the Children.

www.savethechildren.org.uk

PS It always helps to look at a map when trying to understand all of this stuff!

 

[dwayne]

Many Thanks to everyone who have made very well informed, balanced, educated, well considered and researched, whilst still passionate and honest posts on the actual subject of this thread.

Looks like that has finished now, so I'll dip out with my thanks

Flounce alert!! Very disappointed in you watty. The fact that you had to announce it as well

 

[mile oak]

Premier League and EFL BANS Israeli and Palestinian flags from stadiums this weekend in an effort t… https://mol.im/a/12650231 via https://dailym.ai/android

I think all flags apart from St George should be banned, why do we need any other flags these countries arent playing at the Amex or other PL or EFL games. Obviously Welsh flags permitted when Welsh teams are playing.

 

[Psychobilly freakout]

I think all flags apart from St George should be banned, why do we need any other flags these countries arent playing.

ok, carry on….

Obviously Welsh flags permitted when Welsh teams are playing.

Wooo there doggie, there is always one, that pushes a serious contentious subject, just a bit tooo feckin far…..

 

[Eeyore]

Awful old bastard. A Jew hater to his bones

What evidence do you have that he is a Jew hater ?