[News] Hamas/Gaza/Israel

[Pavilionaire]

I see both the US and UK have ships just off the coast of Gaza with fully equipped hospitals and operating theatres. It will be interesting to see what happens when the killing of Palestinians really starts - will those Western ships stand idle while thousands die because of a lack of medical facilities?

 

[Zeberdi]

This is why it is important not to demonise any group on the grounds of race or religion and why choice of language can matter especially on mainstream news and social media ….

Muslim boy killed and woman wounded in Illinois hate crime motivated by Israel-Hamas war, police say

Authorities say a 71-year-old Illinois man has been charged with a hate crime, accused of fatally stabbing a young boy and seriously wounded a woman because of their Islamic faith and the Israel-Hamas war.

apnews.com

 

[Wardy's twin]

We need to remember too that Israel is a militarised State with compulsory conscription for every single 18 year old Jewish citizen in Israel so thousands of reservists consist of 18-21 yr olds who don’t even want to be in the army let alone lob rockets into the OPT and don’t believe the IDF’s attacks on the Occupied Territories are to defend Israel but to protect the illegal settlement expansion

I posted this earlier but it was probably missed

https://www.chathamhouse.org/sites/default/files/public/Research/Middle%20East/courage_to_refuse_summary.pdf

Was Britain a militarised state when it had compulsory service or was just a practical way of ensuring we had enough people to defend the UK and the empire or fight Russia should WW3 start. It was also a good way of binding the state in common cause , especially the so called working class. Israel has had to fight for existence so it is not surprising that it would have reservists and compulsory military service. Though ironically I thought those Jews studying theology (?) who are often Zionist extremists are exempted much to the chagrin of those who don't like the settlers.

 

[Wardy's twin]

It is hard to find a solution to a question when most of those who have been or are directly involved in the conflict (or observers like us) can’t identify the real protagonists nor agree what a solution should look like or even agree on the premise of the question. The last 50yrs or so of failing peace initiatives can attest to that - It becomes an even more of an intractable problem when a bloody and chaotic War is being conducted where’s there is clearly not any sense of shared understanding amongst the main protagonists (and many observers) of who is ‘innocent’ and who is not.

(I think the the Irish problem btw is a good example of an ‘Occupation conflict’ regardless of one’s religion or political view)

A solution in Israel can only come from a leap of faith by leaders on both sides. Hopefully Netanyahu will fall (this Israeli disaster happened on his watch) and people accept that a war against HAMAS won't solve the problem. The new government would suggest all the hostages should be returned to Israel. At that point Israel has put the onus on HAMAS... Hopefully the new government would not be dependent on the settler vote.. who knows. Whether that buys enough time for a 2 state solution who knows.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Seems to me that Israel could maybe strike a deal with Egypt to cede land to the Palestinians in the Sinai Peninsula. It's right next to the Gaza Strip and is sparsely populated. Anything has to be better than being holed up in that narrow densely-populated coastal strip shirley?

 

[AK74]

Seems to me that Israel could maybe strike a deal with Egypt to cede land to the Palestinians in the Sinai Peninsula. It's right next to the Gaza Strip and is sparsely populated. Anything has to be better than being holed up in that narrow densely-populated coastal strip shirley?

I read something over the weekend on this (probably on The Guardian's website). Suggestion was that Egypt might be persuaded to take Gazans into Sinai in return for economic assistance from various western nations.

EDIT: this is the article - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...g-could-egypt-open-it-to-fleeing-palestinians

 

[fly high]

I'm well aware that the 'conflict' in Ireland goes back much further than 400 years. I only referenced the Ulster plantations set up by James I in that period because it mirrored the hypothetical event that @nicko31 put up. For example, one of the conditions put on the English and Scottish 'undertakers' by James I during that land grab was that they must, within three years, build a house made of stone to set minimum specifications, with a fortified wall surrounding it and with armaments contained within. In other words, they knew it was an act of hostility they were engaged in. Sound familiar?
I'm also aware that the Israel/Palestine question goes back even further than the Irish question. It is also much much more complex.

It's a very good question as to, 'How long should it be before ancient excuses are consigned to the dustbin?'. I honestly don't know the answer to that. You've chosen to live in Australia I believe? Maybe you have a specific view on historic cut off points and the way forward?

Certainly history needs to be taught so that it can at least be learnt from. However, if the will isn't there to change the course of history through compromise for the betterment of all involved, then yes, it'll forever be used as 'ancient excuses' to continue conflicts, sadly

Which is exactly what the Serbs did but NATO & told them it did not matter now & certainly did not justify genocide.

 

[Zeberdi]

Was Britain a militarised state when it had compulsory service or was just a practical way of ensuring we had enough people to defend the UK and the empire or fight Russia should WW3 start. It was also a good way of binding the state in common cause , especially the so called working class. Israel has had to fight for existence so it is not surprising that it would have reservists and compulsory military service.

Good points and don’t disagree with any of that but my post really was in opposition to the idea that the IDF were an ideologically homogenous group who support the Netanyahu government’s agenda on Palestine ( as was being suggested by several posters up thread) objectives which include not to recognise a State of Palestine and annexation to Israel by stealth through settlement expansion -

Though ironically I thought those Jews studying theology (?) who are often Zionist extremists are exempted much to the chagrin of those who don't like the settlers.

Yes Haredi Jews are exempt but that exemption is based on preserving ethnic diversity in the population nothing to with being exempt on religious grounds per se but their numbers have grown enough to be able to share the burden- so that’s why it’s become unpopular - Druze and Circassian’s ) also have exemptions or limited service duration for the same reason but they are still very much small minorities.

BTW The ‘settlers’ are those Jewish people living in the Occupied Palestine Territories not Palestinians

 

[fly high]

This is why it is important not to demonise any group on the grounds of race or religion and why choice of language can matter especially on mainstream news and social media ….

Muslim boy killed and woman wounded in Illinois hate crime motivated by Israel-Hamas war, police say

Authorities say a 71-year-old Illinois man has been charged with a hate crime, accused of fatally stabbing a young boy and seriously wounded a woman because of their Islamic faith and the Israel-Hamas war.

apnews.com

I really could not believe that someone could be so bigoted they can kill a young child, a child who he knew. There are times I despair with the human race.

 

[fly high]

Was Britain a militarised state when it had compulsory service or was just a practical way of ensuring we had enough people to defend the UK and the empire or fight Russia should WW3 start. It was also a good way of binding the state in common cause , especially the so called working class. Israel has had to fight for existence so it is not surprising that it would have reservists and compulsory military service. Though ironically I thought those Jews studying theology (?) who are often Zionist extremists are exempted much to the chagrin of those who don't like the settlers.

All the Scandinavian countries still have compulsory military service.

 

[Machiavelli]

The latest Rest is Politics, featuring an interview with Yuval Noah Hari, is worth a listen if you've got 45 minutes.

https://spotify.link/wna8gXmAWDb

On such things, Lyse Doucet is doing a daily show on the conflict:

BBC Sounds - The Conflict: Israel-Gaza - Available Episodes

Listen to the latest episodes of The Conflict: Israel-Gaza on BBC Sounds

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Steve Bell sacked by The Guardian

Steve Bell sacked by Guardian in antisemitism row over Netanyahu cartoon

Cartoon of Israeli PM Netanyahu was pulled following a row over its meaning.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[dsr-burnley]

Steve Bell sacked by The Guardian

Steve Bell sacked by Guardian in antisemitism row over Netanyahu cartoon

Cartoon of Israeli PM Netanyahu was pulled following a row over its meaning.

www.bbc.co.uk

Professional offence-takers strike again. A tenuous and (as it turns out) imaginary link to a Jew in a Shakespeare play can't be a reason to sack someone.

 

[dsr-burnley]

Also - the Israelis might need convincing/ if it’s near any of her borders there could still be a border problem risk with Islamic fundamental jihadistic terrorists- it’s only Hamas keeping those terrorists from having a foothold at the moment -

I don't quite see how Hamas can be keeping Islamic fundamental jihadistic terrorists from the borders. Hamas are Islamic fundamental jihadistic terrorists.

 

[aolstudios]

Professional offence-takers strike again. A tenuous and (as it turns out) imaginary link to a Jew in a Shakespeare play can't be a reason to sack someone.

He has masses of previous. An obsessive & regular antisemite. They've had to pull his work previously due to A.S.
Sad, he was funny years ago

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Professional offence-takers strike again.

This one doesn't even seem to be a result of any professional offence-taking.

Looks like this is just the Guardian binning him off to pre-empt some expected offence-taking.

They beat the offence-takers to it. They'll be gutted.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Steve Bell sacked by The Guardian

Steve Bell sacked by Guardian in antisemitism row over Netanyahu cartoon

Cartoon of Israeli PM Netanyahu was pulled following a row over its meaning.

www.bbc.co.uk

I've found The Guardian harder to get on with since its lockdown and Covid coverage and barely bother at all now. This is shameful.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

He has masses of previous. An obsessive & regular antisemite. They've had to pull his work previously due to A.S.
Sad, he was funny years ago

Bollocks.

the bloke has drawn multiple cartoons per WEEK, for FORTY YEARS. You can't produce THOUSANDS of satirical cartoons, without some folk rightly or wrongly interpreting them as offensive.

 

[aolstudios]

Bollocks.

the bloke has drawn multiple cartoons per WEEK, for FORTY YEARS. You can't produce THOUSANDS of satirical cartoons, without some folk rightly or wrongly interpreting them as offensive.

Wow.
Just f***ing wow.
I used to love him but in recent years there's been an absolute Jew obsession. It's not exactly an esoteric view of Bell. Just because you haven't noticed doesn't mean it hasn't happened. As I said, the guardian, not exactly a bastion of Israel love to put it mildly, has withdrawn several antisemitic works of his previously.
Would you dismiss any other minority's experience of racism that casually?
Seriously, maybe take a step back for a moment?

 

[aolstudios]

Bollocks.

the bloke has drawn multiple cartoons per WEEK, for FORTY YEARS. You can't produce THOUSANDS of satirical cartoons, without some folk rightly or wrongly interpreting them as offensive.

Realise how much you sound like a daily mail reader defending Bernard Manning?