[News] Hamas/Gaza/Israel

[hans kraay fan club]

This bombardment that's happening, the possible ground invasion, the deaths from taking away water, electricity etc ..... now there's not going to be an official death toll of innocent non combatants, even an accurate assessment will take a while.

But surely there is every likelihood, that the number of innocents killed will far exceed the number which Hamas brutally murdered last weekend.

Surely the messaging from world leaders is wrong now. Israel has absolutely every right to go for Hamas soldiers and leaders. But carpet bombing Gaza? Surely the world needs to urge restraint

The world needs to do more than 'urge restraint'. The world needs to put Netanyahu in the Hague on a war crimes trial.

 

[nicko31]

From BBC inside Gaza City..

Buildings are collapsing in the street and entire neighbourhoods have been flattened.

Government and university buildings, infrastructure, a mosque and a police station have been destroyed.

Israel has precision weapons, this doesn't sound very targeted at all

 

[hans kraay fan club]

From BBC inside Gaza City..

Buildings are collapsing in the street and entire neighbourhoods have been flattened.

Government and university buildings, infrastructure, a mosque and a police station have been destroyed.

Israel has precision weapons, this doesn't sound very targeted at all

Or perhaps it does.

 

[Krafty]

Out of interest have you asked any of your neighbours what they think about people that are gay ? What they think about people that might mock Mohammed ? Be interesting to hear there answers .

Doing the same things as you might do on a regular basis Is not necessarily an indication of whether they are as you put it ‘ People like us ‘

What peoples views on Gay people , free speech , etc is a truer indicator of ‘ People like us ‘. Ie people that share common liberal tolerant values.

It seems like you are segregating Muslims as they are not compatible with our culture because of their opinions and beliefs.
However, could you say the same with Christianity and Judaism. What are their views on gay people?
I have friends who worship many different religions, yet I do not see one differently to another based on their beliefs, they are just generally nice people (like many others in society) and I find it fascinating when learning more about their religion.

 

[GT49er]

The world needs to do more than 'urge restraint'. The world needs to put Netanyahu in the Hague on a war crimes trial.

..........yes, of course - and the leaders of Hamas should be there too.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Out of interest have you asked any of your neighbours what they think about people that are gay ? What they think about people that might mock Mohammed ? Be interesting to hear there answers .

Doing the same things as you might do on a regular basis Is not necessarily an indication of whether they are as you put it ‘ People like us ‘

What peoples views on Gay people , free speech , etc is a truer indicator of ‘ People like us ‘. Ie people that share common liberal tolerant values.

Maybe we should compare their views on abortion vs the American view ?

 

[hans kraay fan club]

..........yes, of course - and the leaders of Hamas should be there too.

Absolutely - but I think that goes without saying. Nobody can possibly see the Hamas actions of the past few days as anything but atrocities. The spectrum of opinion on Israel's retaliation seems rather wider.

 

[Psychobilly freakout]

29 pages on, do we have a solution yet ?



Thought not.....

There never will be either, especially when you have two antiquated religions & ideologies at loggerheads about who is right, who was first, who is the most persecuted, who the land belongs too, religion pah.

 

[fly high]

Did you know that Palestine previously accepted Israel's right to peace, which was the first PLO obligation under the Oslo Accord in 1993?

If Yasser Arafat had lived longer maybe, just maybe a lasting peace could have been found but he was already weakened by then. PLO were overtaken politically by Hamas.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

29 pages on, do we have a solution yet ?



Thought not.....

There never will be either, especially when you have two antiquated religions & ideologies at loggerheads about who is right, who was first, who is the most persecuted, who the land belongs too, religion pah.

It would be quite remarkable if NSC succeeded where global diplomacy has failed over 50 or more years.

However, I think we can all agree that both sides exercising restraint is the first step on any path

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

The world needs to do more than 'urge restraint'. The world needs to put Netanyahu in the Hague on a war crimes trial.

As a starting point, let's make sure western leaders know that through their language and backing they can't give Netanhayu carte blanche to carry out mass murder with impunity.

 

[Live by the sea]

Your views on Muslims are abhorrent, however, the thing is that despite people having horrendous views they are still people. The 'like us' is entirely subjective in the sentence. You are like us in many ways, for example supporting Brighton and not 'like us' in other ways, e.g. the Islamophobia.

Of course the small step of taking away the 'like us' leads to the dark dark-place of dehumanizing people. And people like us really don't want that.

What absolute nonsense . My views on Muslims are abhorrent !!!! Why ?

I’m not the one who disagrees with gay rights or freedom of speech so how can my views be abhorrent.

You seem purposefully blind to the issues I’ve mentioned .

I have never once said or intimated that Muslims aren’t people - you just make crap up !

Try reading what I wrote !

Is any view that is factually correct , abhorrent to you because it doesn’t fit your narrative .


‘ people like us ‘ was the wording used by the poster first not me. I was quoting it .

 

[Live by the sea]

Maybe we should compare their views on abortion vs the American view ?

I’m talking about basic human rights - gay rights , freedom of speech - do you not care about that !

Lots of people have different views about various subjects. I’m highlighting huge differences of opinion that are not considered acceptable in a liberal democracy.

Freedom of speech and gay rights . Are you happy that some people don’t agree with that , are these the people you want to support so vocally.

 

[The Clamp]

The revolting Hate Mail trying to score political points off death and misery. Shame on them and their readership.

 

[nicko31]

The revolting Hate Mail trying to score political points off death and misery. Shame on them and their readership.
View attachment 167880

Predictable from Rothermere's publication

Written direct from the swimming pool in Florida!! Thanks Rich.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

About 20% of the province I live in is Muslim. In my neighbourhood I wouldn't be surprised if the figure was even higher than that, with significant numbers of Moroccans and smaller Senegalese, Algerian and Pakistani communities. My barber is Muslim. The local shopkeepers are muslim. My next door neighbours are Muslim. Some of the lads I play football with are Muslim. A lot of the kids I see walking to school are Muslim. They are people like us.

No they aren't.

They are in a cult, we are not.

Do you believe in an imaginary being in the sky? Do you follow the teachings of a horrid individual and get all angry when people mock him?

What you see is a facade.

When push comes to shove their ultra conservative views will be at odds with a great many of the people here trying to paint them as like us.

When the evils of the Catholic Church started to come out their numbers started to decrease as people walked away from it.

Why is there no great walking away from Islam? The answer is because it's hard to get out of cults.

 

[Live by the sea]

It seems like you are segregating Muslims as they are not compatible with our culture because of their opinions and beliefs.
However, could you say the same with Christianity and Judaism. What are their views on gay people?
I have friends who worship many different religions, yet I do not see one differently to another based on their beliefs, they are just generally nice people (like many others in society) and I find it fascinating when learning more about their religion.

I’m NOT segregating anyone. The point I made which has been made countless times by people that are experts ( historians etc ) in on this subject and are not right wing is that some of the laws in some Muslim countries are incompatible with the laws in Europe , Israel and the USA .

There maybe some Christians and Jewish people who don’t agree with Gay rights or freedom of speech etc but in the countries they populate , this is the law so they would be breaking the law and suffer the consequences if they for example attacked a gay person or said hateful things .

In many Muslim countries it is not against the law to attack Gay people because they don’t have rights and if you want to shout death to Christians or Jews the police will not do any thing.

So the big difference is if you are used to living in a country that tolerates and in some countries actively encourages hatred of other religions and Gay people etc how is that going to play out when some of these people leave their countries and live in Europe.

To say everyone is equally to blame on these issues is clearly not true because in Christian countries and Israel we have different ( I would say better laws )

 

[BadFish]

What absolute nonsense . My views on Muslims are abhorrent !!!! Why ?

I’m not the one who disagrees with gay rights or freedom of speech so how can my views be abhorrent.

You seem purposefully blind to the issues I’ve mentioned .

I have never once said or intimated that Muslims aren’t people - you just make crap up !

Try reading what I wrote !

Is any view that is factually correct , abhorrent to you because it doesn’t fit your narrative .


‘ people like us ‘ was the wording used by the poster first not me. I was quoting it .

Why?

Well, there is the argument that they are not 'people like us', this kind of othering language is a red flag.
Your assumption that all Muslims will be anti-gay rights and anti free speech - My experience says that Christians are just as likely to be anti-gay. Bible claptrap
Your blind support of Netanyahu and habit of looking the other way to the wrongs done by his far-right government.
The whole 'side' and 'supporting' thing, treating an incredibly complex situation like a football team is . . . well less abhorrent and more . . . illogical and stupid, but still quite dangerous.

Anyway as I say, you do you I don't like your views on this subject but we can still share space. I hope you feel the same about Muslims? . . . because that's not how it comes across.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I’m talking about basic human rights - gay rights , freedom of speech - do you not care about that !

Lots of people have different views about various subjects. I’m highlighting huge differences of opinion that are not considered acceptable in a liberal democracy.

Freedom of speech and gay rights . Are you happy that some people don’t agree with that , are these the people you want to support so vocally.

Abortion is a basic human right - many Americans don't think so. But yes, I disagree with people who view gay rights and freedom of speech in the way you suggest.

 

[Live by the sea]

Why?

Well, there is the argument that they are not 'people like us', this kind of othering language is a red flag.
Your assumption that all Muslims will be anti-gay rights and anti free speech - My experience says that Christians are just as likely to be anti-gay. Bible claptrap
Your blind support of Netanyahu and habit of looking the other way to the wrongs done by his far-right government.
The whole 'side' and 'supporting' thing, treating an incredibly complex situation like a football team is . . . well less abhorrent and more . . . illogical and stupid, but still quite dangerous.

Anyway as I say, you do you I don't like your views on this subject but we can still share space. I hope you feel the same about Muslims? . . . because that's not how it comes across.

Except I DID NOT say all , I said a minority . Try reading what I wrote .