[News] Hamas/Gaza/Israel

[borat]

.

 

[borat]

That's literally the state propaganda channel of Qatar. Base & funder of Hamas, ffs

I think you need to read up on media ownership. Slightly makes me wonder about how well you understand the whole situation.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Pretty much verified in a video ( of course this may be deep fake ) by the tatoos on a partially covered body on a pickup truck. Spitting shown etc. I don't think there is any video evidence of a rape so that seems hearsay.

Thank you.

I have a load of bloodthirsty, very pro Israeli stuff in my twitter feed from people who report on the Ukraine war.

With that situation and this, access to actual truth and believably objective reporting is very hard to find on twitter. I'm resolving to stay off it for war information and keep an eye on the TV news.

 

[beorhthelm]

So it’s ok for you to be insulting to me is it ?

It’s not my logic it’s the same logic that is shared by the USA, the Uk , European Union and most of the western world .

Let me explain it in really simple terms so you might just understand . If you give the Palestinian a state whilst they are under the governance of a terrorist group , then you are obliged to give them all the trappings that come with your own country. Ie air force, navy etc

What do you think the Palestinians first idea would be as soon as they have an equipped functioning air force & navy ?

To attack Israel - obviously they are governed by a terrorist group that is sworn to its destruction but has never been able to carry out its aims because it doesn’t thankfully have planes & therefore the capability to have a real go .

That is the main reason that Israelis haven’t been pushed into making an agreement with Palestinians by the USA because they are very mindful of that .

Obviously that situation could change if and when they are not governed by a prescribed terrorist group.

would have thought it obvious if there was a recognised Palestinian state, that would crowd out Hamas and other terrorist groups. maybe thats too simple.
saying a nation automatically gives navy and airforce is just daft. thats a matter of resources and a new Palestinian state would be mostly focused on rebuilding and civic development. they wouldnt be buying aircraft and ships that would be squashed by Israel in the first conflict.

 

[Zeberdi]

I’m not confusing anything . If the Palestinians had free rein over the Gaza Strip and the settlements near the border of Israel even without an airforce it would make it a extremely difficult for Israel to defend itself.

Your language continues to be inflammatory and trying to incite fear into people which is not based on fact but Islamophobia - firstly the Gaza strip is tiny compared to the State of Israel, Hamas while a military (and political) force is a terrorist group and a military David to Israel’s Goliath in terms of military might - you saying in your earlier post that Israel would no longer exist as a free independent State if the Gaza Strip was conceded into Palestinian control is like saying the IRA had the potential for an existential genocidal attack on the United Kingdom.

The only existential threat to Israel would be from a full out expansion of the war to include attacks by Iran, Iranian forces in Iraq, Hezbollah, and Palestinian terrorists from Judea and Samaria - if that happens, you are looking at an explosion of terrifying violent conflict in the Middle East that will be an existential threat to us all.

The appropriate use of language in this debate is very important indeed.

 

[carlzeiss]

I suppose I ask the question, as i've never heard any instances of Islamic terrorists raping victims. I don't at all doubt the number of murders or the amount of hostage taking there has been.

All the spitting on bodies of dead young women and stuff, I certainly don't want to see it, but i'd want some level of verification, maybe from someone more independent than the parents of the deceased, before I accepted all that as fact.

In Iran it is actually illegal to execute a virgin . So they do the decent thing and forcible marry the young women to a member of their morality police who then rapes her before she in hung in the morning . I suppose it means that the procedure is carried out in accordance with their religious scriptures .

 

[sparkie]

Thank you.

I have a load of bloodthirsty, very pro Israeli stuff in my twitter feed from people who report on the Ukraine war.

With that situation and this, access to actual truth and believably objective reporting is very hard to find on twitter. I'm resolving to stay off it for war information and keep an eye on the TV news.

True.

There is a massive disinformation war going on with videos posted from past years and in all probability deep fakes emerging. Best be a bit sceptical as a default.

 

[Live by the sea]

Your language continues to be inflammatory and trying to incite fear into people which is not based on fact but Islamophobia - firstly the Gaza strip is tiny compared to the State of Israel, Hamas while a military (and political) force is a terrorist group and a military David to Israel’s Goliath in terms of military might - you saying in your earlier post that Israel would no longer exist as a free independent State if the Gaza Strip was conceded into Palestinian control is like saying the IRA had the potential for an existential genocidal attack on the United Kingdom.

The only existential threat to Israel would be from a full out expansion of the war to include attacks by Iran, Iranian forces in Iraq, Hezbollah, and Palestinian terrorists from Judea and Samaria - if that happens, you are looking at an explosion of terrifying violent conflict in the Middle East that will be an existential threat to us all.

The appropriate use of language in this debate is very important indeed.

I couldn’t disagree with you any more , free rein means you can do what you like - how is that Islamophobia !

Please don’t give me a lecture on use of language when you are posting the Palestinians as David against Goalith which isn’t true when they have support from large countries like Iran & Syria .

I’m not going to reply to any of your further posts because you are clearly set on your views which I find quite offensive.

 

[Zeberdi]

In Iran it is actually illegal to execute a virgin . So they do the decent thing and forcible marry the young women to a member of their morality police who then rapes her before she in hung in the morning . I suppose it means that the procedure is carried out in accordance with their religious scriptures .

This kind of talk, whilst may be incidents of real situations isn’t helpful in the discussion on a conflict that revolves around a war that has largely arisen from oppression and systematic breaches of human rights by what is seen as a Westernised occupier.

It’s the sort of talk that seeks to justify the very non-humanitarian abuses meted out on innocent Palestinian civilians over the past 50 years or so.

What you think (or any of us thinks) about the religious and cultural practices and beliefs of a race of people different to our own, or even that practiced by people on our own society, does not justify forcing a race of people to live under the cruel oppression.

AND FYI - every major faith condemns forced marriage and rape is forbidden by every religion

“Forced marriage is not allowed in Islam. Both the groom and the bride must consent to the marriage. The consent of the woman is essential, and must be obtained, and any marriage which is forced is considered to be batil or void. He said “then this marriage is invalid, go and marry whomever you wish.”

https://www.mwnuk.co.uk/Forced_Marriage_7_factsheets.php#:~:text=Forced%20marriage%20is%20not%20allowed,to%20be%20batil%20or%20void.&text=He%20said%20“then,and%20marry%20whomever%20you%20wish.

https://islamqa.info/en/answers/72338/punishment-for-rape-in-islam



Again, some reading around the subject before posting would be really helpful …

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

This kind of talk, whilst may be incidents of real situations isn’t helpful in the discussion on a conflict that revolves around a war that has largely arisen from oppression and systematic breaches of human rights by what is seen as a Westernised occupier.

It’s the sort of talk that seeks to justify the very non-humanitarian abuses meted out on innocent Palestinian civilians over the past 50 years or so.

What you think (or any of us thinks) about the religious and cultural practices and beliefs of a race of people different to our own, or even that practiced by people on our own society, does not justify forcing a race of people to live under the cruel oppression.

AND FYI - every major faith condemns forced marriage and rape is forbidden by every religion

“Forced marriage is not allowed in Islam. Both the groom and the bride must consent to the marriage. The consent of the woman is essential, and must be obtained, and any marriage which is forced is considered to be batil or void. He said “then this marriage is invalid, go and marry whomever you wish.”

https://www.mwnuk.co.uk/Forced_Marriage_7_factsheets.php#:~:text=Forced%20marriage%20is%20not%20allowed,to%20be%20batil%20or%20void.&text=He%20said%20“then,and%20marry%20whomever%20you%20wish.

https://islamqa.info/en/answers/72338/punishment-for-rape-in-islam



Again, some reading around the subject before posting would be really helpful …

Maybe read up on honour killings.

One of the reasons for honour killings is not consenting to a marriage. So naturally it's often consent or potentially face death.

Guess which backwards ideologues commit the vast majority of honour killings...

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Why would Israel be over as a democratic civilised country?

It's not even a democratic civilised country now !

 

[Zeberdi]

Maybe read up on honour killings.

One of the reasons for honour killings is not consenting to a marriage. So naturally it's often consent or potentially face death.

Guess which backwards ideologues commit the vast majority of honour killings...

feel free

Historical Context - Origins of Honour Killing - Preliminary Examination of so-called Honour Killings in Canada

Department of Justice Canada's Internet site

www.justice.gc.ca

“But the truth of the matter is that honor killings are not caused or encouraged by Islam. Honor killing, despite the popular rhetoric around it, is not even a problem specific to Muslims.

2
“ Its most concentrated and serious occurrences don’t involve Muslims at all. This ignorance about Islam’s teachings and the realities of violence against women has serious costs. First, blaming honor crimes on Islam antagonizes Muslims unnecessarily. It feeds the narrative, prevalent in many Muslim countries, that dismisses human rights as a proxy for Westernization and cultural imperialism. Second, sensationalism over Islam deflects from a reality that many men are loath to admit: that violence against women is a global problem with roots much deeper than the doctrines of one religion or the features of one culture. It needs to be addressed as such. Finally, obsessing over Islam’s alleged acceptance of honor crimes blinds Muslims and non-Muslims to the condemnation of these crimes in Muhammad ﷺ’s teachings and the Shariah.”

Islam is not the Cause of Honor Killings. It’s Part of the Solution. | Yaqeen Institute for Islamic Research

This part of the history of honor killings you’re unlikely to read or hear about. In 1947 in the British colony of Nigeria, English judges had to overturn what they viewed as the backwards ruling of a local Shariah court. A man had been sentenced to death for murder, but the British superior...

yaqeeninstitute.org

 

[Live by the sea]

 

[Live by the sea]

Part 2-

 

[Zeberdi]

I’m not going to reply to any of your further posts because you are clearly set on your views which I find quite offensive.

What views are they?

I am a Jewish person who recognises not only the right of the State of Israel to both exist and defend itself against enemy attacks but also the rights of the Palestinian people to self-determination , I recognise and understand a little of the process of radicalisation of people who see no other way forward borne of years of persecution and hostile illegal occupation and have utterly condemned the attacks on Israel whilst acknowledging that Hamas doesn’t have the military power on its own to be an existential threat to Israel. I have repeatedly alluded to the historical and modern complexities surrounding the issue of the OPT

How is any of that offensive?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

So it’s ok for you to be insulting to me is it ?

You did me over the weekend.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Hamas are directly responsible for the deaths of 1,000 people on both sides in the last few days. The ****s are still firing rockets into Israel. And the Israelis have ordered a complete siege of Gaza. They'll be avenging their 9/11 for years, if not decades, to come. What a complete deadly lethal shitshow

 

[Guinness Boy]

I’m not confusing anything . If the Palestinians had free rein over the Gaza Strip and the settlements near the border of Israel even without an airforce it would make it a extremely difficult for Israel to defend itself.

Whereas now all they've managed to do is fire several thousand rockets, commit incursions by sea and land and shoot up a music festival. I can't imagine the horrors that would be unleashed if they had their own democratic government taking care of health, education and food instead.

 

[rippleman]

This is quite a large understatement. The Israeli state turns a blind eye/facilitates the removal of people from their homes, and the bombing and killing of Palestinians over decades. Its labelled Apartheid by the biggest human rights organisations so lets not tiptoe around the edges.

The UN's General Assembly has, since 2015, adopted 140 resolutions against Israel. During that time only 68 resolutions have been adopted against all other countries.

I urge everybody not to fall into Sir Starmer's trap of equating anti-Zionism (ie criticism of the actions of the ultra right wing State of Israel) with anti-semitism (ie critical of the race, religion and customs of Judaism). They are NOT the same thing in any way, shape or form.

"“Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities.”

"However, criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic."

Who says so? The International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance.

What is antisemitism?

With the IHRA working definition of antisemitism, the IHRA built international consensus around an answer to the question, what does antisemitism mean?

www.holocaustremembrance.com

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

feel free

Historical Context - Origins of Honour Killing - Preliminary Examination of so-called Honour Killings in Canada

Department of Justice Canada's Internet site

www.justice.gc.ca

“But the truth of the matter is that honor killings are not caused or encouraged by Islam. Honor killing, despite the popular rhetoric around it, is not even a problem specific to Muslims.

2
“ Its most concentrated and serious occurrences don’t involve Muslims at all. This ignorance about Islam’s teachings and the realities of violence against women has serious costs. First, blaming honor crimes on Islam antagonizes Muslims unnecessarily. It feeds the narrative, prevalent in many Muslim countries, that dismisses human rights as a proxy for Westernization and cultural imperialism. Second, sensationalism over Islam deflects from a reality that many men are loath to admit: that violence against women is a global problem with roots much deeper than the doctrines of one religion or the features of one culture. It needs to be addressed as such. Finally, obsessing over Islam’s alleged acceptance of honor crimes blinds Muslims and non-Muslims to the condemnation of these crimes in Muhammad ﷺ’s teachings and the Shariah.”

Islam is not the Cause of Honor Killings. It’s Part of the Solution. | Yaqeen Institute for Islamic Research

This part of the history of honor killings you’re unlikely to read or hear about. In 1947 in the British colony of Nigeria, English judges had to overturn what they viewed as the backwards ruling of a local Shariah court. A man had been sentenced to death for murder, but the British superior...

yaqeeninstitute.org

You're quoting me an Islamic Institution. Forgive me If I don't believe a thing they say.

Interestingly only one of the linked honour killings in the UK wasn't from a Muslim background.

Category:Honour killing in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The garbage they trot out. Their Prophet was a nasty brutal warlord.

He's on par with Genghis Khan, not Buddha. Why would anyone think "teachings" coming from a person like that would be worth following. It's a cult.