[News] Hamas/Gaza/Israel

[Simster]

You are right the conflict would be over and so would Israel as a democratic civilised country with western values and a majority Jewish population. What you are asking for is similar to what the Iranian leader has asked for ….

As @Nobby Cybergoat asks, how exactly does that follow? There is no logic in your post whatsoever.


It's just yet more horseshit from you really isn't it?

 

[aolstudios]

Interview on CNN (not normally known for balance in its coverage of the region)

That's literally the state propaganda channel of Qatar. Base & funder of Hamas, ffs

 

[Simster]

I know you say this with the best intentions, but it's an insane and impossible suggestion.

The West Bank suggestion maybe feasible.

E Jerusalem never is, and never will be.

It includes all of the old city, and sacred monuments at the centre of both the Jewish and Christian faith, yes it now also includes the Al Aqsa Mosque built on top of the previous Jewish King Solomons temple. The temple Mount, its western wall, the wailing wall, always has loads of religious Jews praying at it, is as sacred as Mecca is to Muslims, its the Jewish religions most holy site.

There isn't a Jewish leader that could survive politically or even physically if he decided to hand over the old city which includes the temple Mount to Palestinian Arabs.

Secular thinking or even rational discourse won't work with die hard religious extremists.

The only possible secular solution for Jerusalem (that will still be rejected) is a Northern Ireland type power sharing assembly.

E Jesruslam can only be solely Palestinian by force, if that were possible.

If you're right then I agree with your conclusion - either a power sharing agreement or it should be administered by the UN. Having Israel control the city is not sustainable for long term peace.

 

[aolstudios]

Not sure the solution is that simple, if only it was. I'm sure there are thousands of Palestinians & Israelis who would agree but Hamas' aim along with Iran is to wipe Israel off the face of the map & slaughter all Jews or at the very least drive them out of the Middle East.

This ^

 

[hans kraay fan club]

That's literally the state propaganda channel of Qatar. Base & funder of Hamas, ffs

CNN is the state TV channel of Qatar?

 

[Bakero]

CNN is the state TV channel of Qatar?

Did you not hear about Qatar annexing Atlanta?

 

[chimneys]

Absolutely tragic!

I then clicked on the replies, and the first and several further down show past atrocities purportedly carried out by Israeli soldiers/police against Palestinians.

The whole devastating situation is surely unresolvable?!

 

[Live by the sea]

This is just dreadful and I don't belittle the appalling crimes which have been committed by Hamas.

But how much of this has been verified? Obviously the death toll at the camp is currently being established. But the reports of rapes etc, has that all been substantiated?

I ask this as a genuine question as I don't wish to view footage this upsetting and I don't trust twitter as a reliable source of information

Her parents seem to think it’s genuine ! It’s genuine - not sure how you are expecting Hamas terrorists to behave . There’s literally hundreds of eye witness accounts of not only this but several other atrocities, ie snatching women and kids , shooting elderly women dead at a bus stop . The list goes on and on. I’m really amazed you would doubt how vicious Islamic terror groups can behave as the world has seen plenty of examples over the last 25 years .

You mention the death toll at the music festival - yes at least 260 people shot dead almost all teenagers or young people dancing . Surely that must give you some idea of the mindset of the terrorists .

 

[Live by the sea]

As @Nobby Cybergoat asks, how exactly does that follow? There is no logic in your post whatsoever.


It's just yet more horseshit from you really isn't it?

So it’s ok for you to be insulting to me is it ?

It’s not my logic it’s the same logic that is shared by the USA, the Uk , European Union and most of the western world .

Let me explain it in really simple terms so you might just understand . If you give the Palestinian a state whilst they are under the governance of a terrorist group , then you are obliged to give them all the trappings that come with your own country. Ie air force, navy etc

What do you think the Palestinians first idea would be as soon as they have an equipped functioning air force & navy ?

To attack Israel - obviously they are governed by a terrorist group that is sworn to its destruction but has never been able to carry out its aims because it doesn’t thankfully have planes & therefore the capability to have a real go .

That is the main reason that Israelis haven’t been pushed into making an agreement with Palestinians by the USA because they are very mindful of that .

Obviously that situation could change if and when they are not governed by a prescribed terrorist group.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Her parents seem to think it’s genuine ! It’s genuine - not sure how you are expecting Hamas terrorists to behave . There’s literally hundreds of eye witness accounts of not only this but several other atrocities, ie snatching women and kids , shooting elderly women dead at a bus stop . The list goes on and on. I’m really amazed you would doubt how vicious Islamic terror groups can behave as the world has seen plenty of examples over the last 25 years .

I suppose I ask the question, as i've never heard any instances of Islamic terrorists raping victims. I don't at all doubt the number of murders or the amount of hostage taking there has been.

All the spitting on bodies of dead young women and stuff, I certainly don't want to see it, but i'd want some level of verification, maybe from someone more independent than the parents of the deceased, before I accepted all that as fact.

 

[BadFish]

So it’s ok for you to be insulting to me is it ?

It’s not my logic it’s the same logic that is shared by the USA, the Uk , European Union and most of the western world .

Let me explain it in really simple terms so you might just understand . If you give the Palestinian a state whilst they are under the governance of a terrorist group , then you are obliged to give them all the trappings that come with your own country. Ie air force, navy etc

What do you think the Palestinians first idea would be as soon as they have an equipped functioning air force & navy ?

To attack Israel - obviously they are governed by a terrorist group that is sworn to its destruction but has never been able to carry out its aims because it doesn’t thankfully have planes & therefore the capability to have a real go .

That is the main reason that Israelis haven’t been pushed into making an agreement with Palestinians by the USA because they are very mindful of that .

Obviously that situation could change if and when they are not governed by a prescribed terrorist group.

Who is it that gives them an air force and navy? Is it free? How does this work exactly?

Presumably any kind of peace deal would be brokered by the UN and US, I would be astonished if they felt obliged to give them and an army or navy.

 

[portlock seagull]

Her parents seem to think it’s genuine ! It’s genuine - not sure how you are expecting Hamas terrorists to behave . There’s literally hundreds of eye witness accounts of not only this but several other atrocities, ie snatching women and kids , shooting elderly women dead at a bus stop . The list goes on and on. I’m really amazed you would doubt how vicious Islamic terror groups can behave as the world has seen plenty of examples over the last 25 years .

Because some peoples anti-semitism and/or pursuit of balance defies logic. My advice, don’t try to argue with. Ignore. They’re who all those channels beyond Sky 120 were created for, full of searching for ghosts, Bigfoot, lost Nazi treasure and documentaries about Hitler living in S.America amongst Peruvian pigmies…

 

[Live by the sea]

I suppose I ask the question, as i've never heard any instances of Islamic terrorists raping victims. I don't at all doubt the number of murders or the amount of hostage taking there has been.

All the spitting on bodies of dead young women and stuff, I certainly don't want to see it, but i'd want some level of verification, maybe from someone more independent than the parents of the deceased, before I accepted all that as fact.

I give up

 

[Zeberdi]

You are right the conflict would be over and so would Israel as a democratic civilised country with western values and a majority Jewish population. What you are asking for is similar to what the Iranian leader has asked for ….

I think you are confusing the State of Israel with the illegally occupied Gaza Strip and the West Bank (including East Jerusalem) known as the OPT

Even in the unlikely scenario of Israel conceding all claims to the OPT, withdrew all illegal settlements tomorrow, she would still remain an autonomous independent State with defined legal borders and indomitable military force in any kind of conflict with Hamas or other terrorist group.

As I said before, some background reading by some posters would help inform the debate!

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

The more I think about this, the more I think a two state solution is barking up the wrong tree. How would the boundaries of that state ever be agreed upon?

To me, peace arrives with co-existence. Clearly we are a long way from that. But South Africa looked intractable, Northern Ireland looked intractable.

Some form of power sharing, some sort of recognition of each others historic attachment to the land being occupied, some sort of agreement to respect each others holy sites, an end to apartheid.

I always remember that Brighton had players from both sides of the divide playing for us without any discernible problems. Conflict isn't inevitable. 99% of people just want to live their lives in peace.

I'm not naive, we're generations away from this and it will need some sort of remarkable Mandela type figure who can speak to both sides. But once the bloodshed from this episode subsides, the world needs to work towards a pathway, no matter long it is, no matter how bad the set backs are along the way. Because this can't go on for ever. There needs to be some hope.

 

[Live by the sea]

I think you are confusing the State of Israel with the illegally occupied Gaza Strip and the West Bank (including East Jerusalem) known as the OPT

Even in the unlikely scenario of Israel conceding all claims to the OPT, withdrew all illegal settlements tomorrow, she would still remain an autonomous independent State with defined legal borders and indomitable military force in any kind of conflict with Hamas or other terrorist group.

As I said before, some background reading by some posters would help inform the debate!

I’m not confusing anything . If the Palestinians had free rein over the Gaza Strip and the settlements near the border of Israel even without an airforce it would make it a extremely difficult for Israel to defend itself.

 

[heathgate]

Just coming through on news channels here that over 250 bodies of civilians have been found at the music festival attacked by the Palestinians.

CIVILIANS

Other actions seen over the last couple of days were inexcusable, but the slaughter of unarmed civvies at close range is barbarity. Moral high ground lost.

I am astounded that you thought that indiscriminately firing thousands of unguided missiles randomly into built up civilian areas, gives you any " moral high ground" in the first place...

 

[hans kraay fan club]

So it’s ok for you to be insulting to me is it ?

It’s not my logic it’s the same logic that is shared by the USA, the Uk , European Union and most of the western world .

Let me explain it in really simple terms so you might just understand . If you give the Palestinian a state whilst they are under the governance of a terrorist group , then you are obliged to give them all the trappings that come with your own country. Ie air force, navy etc

What do you think the Palestinians first idea would be as soon as they have an equipped functioning air force & navy ?

To attack Israel - obviously they are governed by a terrorist group that is sworn to its destruction but has never been able to carry out its aims because it doesn’t thankfully have planes & therefore the capability to have a real go .

That is the main reason that Israelis haven’t been pushed into making an agreement with Palestinians by the USA because they are very mindful of that .

Obviously that situation could change if and when they are not governed by a prescribed terrorist group.

Didn't Hamas only come to power in Gaza in the late 2000s? Did Israel make any meaningful attempt to recognise any form of Palestinian state in the decades before that?

I'm not absolutely arguing that Israel SHOULD give up all of these disputed territories - I really don't know enough about the situation - but to pretend that it is only the current Hamas rule that is preventing Israel from wanting to find an equitable way forward, seems rather disingenuous.

 

[sparkie]

This is just dreadful and I don't belittle the appalling crimes which have been committed by Hamas.

But how much of this has been verified? Obviously the death toll at the camp is currently being established. But the reports of rapes etc, has that all been substantiated?

I ask this as a genuine question as I don't wish to view footage this upsetting and I don't trust twitter as a reliable source of information.

Pretty much verified in a video ( of course this may be deep fake ) by the tatoos on a partially covered body on a pickup truck. Spitting shown etc. I don't think there is any video evidence of a rape so that seems hearsay.

 

[heathgate]

I’m not confusing anything . If the Palestinians had free rein over the Gaza Strip and the settlements near the border of Israel even without an airforce it would make it a extremely difficult for Israel to defend itself.

Israel has repeatedly, and will repeatedly defeat any and all enemies in the middle east.... there is no organisation, country or even groups of the aforementioned entities in the region who can defeat them. I think if Israel was to concede to any of the many variants of the two state proposal..... states such as Iran, Syria and Qatar will still seek to destroy Israel and all who supports them.