[News] Hamas/Gaza/Israel

[Dave Fishwick]

Can totally understand the argument of enough is enough

No sympathy though for attacking women, children, parading their bodies through the streets, go after the IDF. I don't accept the argument that civilians have voted the current incumbents in to power so everyone is culpable

attacking the music festival is a cowardly act and the sight of that poor German tourist in the back of the Hamas jeep, knowing her fate, just unspeakably grim.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Hamas will have known that by unleashing this horrific attack on Israel, they would be inflicting a terrible and immediate bloodbath of vengeance upon their own people in Gaza. I don't really understand what it is they (Hamas) were hoping to achieve by this. They've taken hundreds of hostages - is this with a view to using them as bargaining chips to get some of their own prisoners released ? If so, what a monumental, catastrophic price to pay.

Hamas don't care.

They have been using their own regular citizens as meat shields for years now.

 

[Easy 10]

Hamas don't care.

They have been using their own regular citizens as meat shields for years now.

You're right, its nothing new in that respect. But this attack was such a HUGE escalation, and just the nature of it has caused such worldwide revulsion towards them. Now, whatever Israel throw at them in retaliation - and the retaliation is going to be humongous - will be viewed as largely justified.

Maybe Hamas don't care. But the gloves are off now, and those poor souls caught in the crossfire are the ones who will suffer and perish under the full weight of a massive Israeli onslaught.

I keep coming back to it - for what ?

 

[Justice]

Watching young men fight a war wearing a designer T shirt skinny jeans and some decent adidas trainers is weirdly amusing to watch.

 

[Pevenseagull]

Watching young men fight a war wearing a designer T shirt skinny jeans and some decent adidas trainers is weirdly amusing to watch.

It really f***ing isn't you appalling ****

 

[Pevenseagull]

I'm out off here for a week before I get too involved with **** watch.

 

[cjd]

Watching young men fight a war wearing a designer T shirt skinny jeans and some decent adidas trainers is weirdly amusing to watch.

I fear you lack the ability to type what I suspect you mean.

Put your keyboard away for a while.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Watching young men fight a war wearing a designer T shirt skinny jeans and some decent adidas trainers is weirdly amusing to watch.

You'll be disappointed with that post

 

[abc]

Borders have been created and re drawn throughout history and Isreal was far from the only example of massive displacement of people due to winners of war drawing lines on a map. The current generation are not culpable for this and the majority of Israeli and Palestinians want to find a way to co exist peacefully. It is always militant factions that do not represent the majority that promote conflict for their own end and ordinary people suffer.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Borders have been created and re drawn throughout history and Isreal was far from the only example of massive displacement of people due to winners of war drawing lines on a map. The current generation are not culpable for this and the majority of Israeli and Palestinians want to find a way to co exist peacefully. It is always militant factions that do not represent the majority that promote conflict for their own end and ordinary people suffer.

You might be right. It feels like the right wing Israeli government want conflict to keep themselves powerful, they way they provoke and provoke the Palestinians can only have one end.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

You're right, its nothing new in that respect. But this attack was such a HUGE escalation, and just the nature of it has caused such worldwide revulsion towards them. Now, whatever Israel throw at them in retaliation - and the retaliation is going to be humongous - will be viewed as largely justified.

Maybe Hamas don't care. But the gloves are off now, and those poor souls caught in the crossfire are the ones who will suffer and perish under the full weight of a massive Israeli onslaught.

I keep coming back to it - for what ?

Hamas have killed all these civilians as revenge for the killing of Palestinian civilians. That's for what. And then more Palestinian civilians will be killed, followed by more Israeli civilians. Its circular, neverending and perhaps we should all pour more efforts and attention into conflicts where there is actually a solution, and leave this lot to their eternal war.

 

[HalfaSeatOn]

Hamas and Netanyahu's government, a marriage made in hell.

 

[Silverhatch]

Hamas will have known that by unleashing this horrific attack on Israel, they would be inflicting a terrible and immediate bloodbath of vengeance upon their own people in Gaza. I don't really understand what it is they (Hamas) were hoping to achieve by this. They've taken hundreds of hostages - is this with a view to using them as bargaining chips to get some of their own prisoners released ? If so, what a monumental, catastrophic price to pay.

IMHO. They want a regional conflict. They are trying to trigger a final solution. They know what Israel will do. They know it will be shock and awe and unpalatable. They’ve planned for it. Hardliners get the levers of power once Israel goes batshit. Iran has Arab superpower ambitions. They’re cold-war enmity towards Saudi is documented. Iran and Saudi want regional supremacy. The idea of any deal with Israel brokered by appeasing-Arab states is anathema to Iran. Oil is off the table in 50-years and power-dynamics shift. Iran detests the western/US alignment of Arab governments. Israel was fractured politically; the US is. It’s VERY complicated, very f***ed up and will make Ukraine look like a skirmish if it goes off.

 

[Hamilton]

Watching young men fight a war wearing a designer T shirt skinny jeans and some decent adidas trainers is weirdly amusing to watch.

That is a disgraceful comment. You should be ashamed of it.

 

[borat]

Interview on CNN (not normally known for balance in its coverage of the region)

 

[chickens]

Accusing Israel of being a terror group is clearly an anti sematic statement but I’m not sadly not surprised coming from your mouth .

No. The OP accused the Israeli government of being a terror group, not Israel.

It is perfectly reasonable to believe both the below statements:

1. Israel is a recognised nation state with the right to defend its borders and citizens.

2. The current Israeli government has indulged in deliberately provoking the Palestinian people with incursions and intimidation, and in placing the Palestinian people under intolerable levels of intrusion into their day to day lives.

From what I can see, it’s frankly a mess on all sides. Hamas want Israel’s destruction, there’s no desire for peace to be found there, but Israel’s government has chosen the path of fighting fire with fire, which frankly just leads to everyone and everything getting burned.

I’d have been far happier if Israel’s voters and government had chosen to hold the moral high ground, keep believing in a two state solution, and patiently insist on the message that they were ready to discuss a two nation state solution in good faith. However, I can also understand that while Hamas hold such power and influence in Palestine, there’s simply no genuine appetite for peace on the Palestinian side either, and I can understand Israel growing weary of waiting for the Palestinians to adopt a less aggressive approach.

I don’t see a good outcome for anyone on either side of this. Israel needs a government that isn’t making unrealistic demands in order to hold meaningful negotiations, and the Palestinians need to be represented by individuals who accept Israel’s existence and are willing to coexist peacefully.

At the present time neither seems true to me.

 

[borat]

2. The current Israeli government has indulged in deliberately provoking the Palestinian people with incursions and intimidation, and in placing the Palestinian people under intolerable levels of intrusion into their day to day lives.

This is quite a large understatement. The Israeli state turns a blind eye/facilitates the removal of people from their homes, and the bombing and killing of Palestinians over decades. Its labelled Apartheid by the biggest human rights organisations so lets not tiptoe around the edges.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

A noted difference is the Israelis keep their conflict to one with the Palestinians.

The Palestinians have shown with this festival massacre they don't care if they kill or kidnap people from other nations who have nothing to do with the conflict.

 

[Hamilton]

Interview on CNN (not normally known for balance in its coverage of the region)

That's a powerful interview.

It's a bloody mess, with both sides having entrenched views and demands, and other political actors using it to wage their own wars. Palestine has existed for thousands of years with Jews and Arabs occupying the land. Has it ever known peace? I stumbled across this website that does help paint a picture of the past that could lead to a picture of the future, but I guess it's rooted in a time before the pogroms of the late 19th and early 20th centuries (and Second World War) drove the Jewish people to seek a homeland away from persecution.

Peaceful Palestine and Palestinian Jews | Promised Land Museum

Palestinian Jews lived alongside Christians and Muslims for years. So why is it that violence exists today? Visit the Promised Land Museum to learn more.

promisedlandmuseum.org

And this timeline is useful for recent events:

Timeline - PalestineRemix

A chronology of milestones in Palestine's modern history.

remix.aljazeera.com

In the meantime, innocent people are dying and will continue to die until we find leaders that can convince peoples to come together. There's so many right and wrongs to this. It's why waving one flag or the other is not the answer.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Interview on CNN (not normally known for balance in its coverage of the region)

I'm stunned that has been broadcast in the US, let alone on CNN. Someone putting an educated, well informed Palestinian case whilst condemning the violence.

I can't believe that was intended