[News] Hamas/Gaza/Israel

[Krafty]

That’s just being deliberately obnoxious. If you’re older, you’ve likely learned more. Unless you’re a teenager. They know everything, it’s pointless arguing with.

I disagree with this, I have a teenager myself and he doesn't "know everything, it's pointless arguing with".
He is a very knowledgeable person and I often learn from him, and vice-versa, as we engage in many fascinating discussions.
I don't consider myself smarter since I'm older, I may have better knowledge in some subjects but he does too, I think it is honestly interesting to hear the opinions of the young people then disregarding them completely.

 

[Questions]

Even in the Bible scripture tells of the Jewish Diaspora born from persecution and marginalisation not from a desire to be homeless - the whole ‘journey’ of the tribes of Israel was described as looking for a homeland and opportunity to express a cultural and religious identity which many centuries later, they thought they’d found in Europe.

Likewise, the modern diaspora and mass migration of European Jews to the then British controlled Palestine territories in the late 30s and 40s largely arose from growing anti-semitic persecution in Europe culminating in the Holocaust.

The Jews were given a State bang smack in the middle of Arab nations which was very provocative and consequently leading to years of insecurity and instability of its borders. The Palestinians Territories were partitioned but the Palestinians with no State of their own ended up resisting what they saw as an affirmation of further occupation so the Eastern quarter of Jerusalem, the Gaza Strip and West Bank became the focus of years of subsequent conflict.

I’m Jewish and recognise the ‘victimisation’ mentality inextricably linked with the modern cultural identity of what it means to be Jewish but conversely will be the first Jewish person to say that the Palestinian people have repeatedly been sold down the river by Western democracies and the very Westernised UN - however, I have relatives that are pretty much entrenched into a Zionist viewpoint.


Do not for one minute ignore the fact either that Russian and Iranian backed interests are very likely intentionally destabilising the regions of both the Middle East and Central Europe (reigniting conflict too in Kosovo) which is linked to their interests in Ukraine…

This full out resurgence of the Palestinian/Israeli Conflict is not happening in a political vacuum -The World is sitting on a tinderbox …

So did God give it to them then ?

 

[portlock seagull]

Although I would describe her more as a pop star than rock start it turns out Taylor has got a pretty good handling on the situation. Close ties to Israel.

Her parody account also spent time in prison for refusing to join the Israeli army.

Both are way too young to know anything though.

Let’s not pretend Taylor Swift knows Jack about the ME next to Jeremy Bowen. You need to come up with something better than that. If your life is dedicated to making music, I very much doubt you’ve done much reading or listening about such a complex matter as the ME. Which You’d need to. She probably knows less than you. Probably…

 

[wellquickwoody]

But you said "Judaism might like to set the media agenda". What did you mean by that? Seems like an antisemitic trope.

Rachel Riley has been very vociferous on social media in her support for Israel, on many, many topics. She does not like it when other people have different opinion to hers. In the last 24 hours she has ’tweeted’ about feeling fearful after seeing Palestinian flags in London. She is not Israeli, but is Jewish.

 

[BadFish]

I disagree with this, I have a teenager myself and he doesn't "know everything, it's pointless arguing with".
He is a very knowledgeable person and I often learn from him, and vice-versa, as we engage in many fascinating discussions.
I don't consider myself smarter with age, I may have better knowledge in some subjects but he does too, I think it is honestly interesting to hear the opinions of the young people then disregarding them completely.

I quite agree, my 18 year old is fascinated by history and geography. We have been discussing the situation and he has been insightful. He is also very much across many conflicts that I know little about.

To me it is folly to dismiss someone's input because of their age or occupation.

But each to their own.

 

[BadFish]

Let’s not pretend Taylor Swift knows Jack about the ME next to Jeremy Bowen. You need to come up with something better than that. If your life is dedicated to making music, I very much doubt you’ve done much reading or listening about such a complex matter as the ME. Which You’d need to. She probably knows less than you. Probably…

Much apologies I forgot to add the link.

Taylor Swift's New Album Rumored to Be about Israeli Prime Minister - The Mideast Beast

With Taylor Swift’s newest album, 1989, recent rumors have been swirling that the entire album is about Swift’s speculated former romance with Zionist

www.themideastbeast.com

Joking aside though, I have no idea what Taylor's take on the middle east is. I just think it is daft to judge it based on her age and occupation rather than what she actually says.

You do you though.

 

[portlock seagull]

I disagree with this, I have a teenager myself and he doesn't "know everything, it's pointless arguing with".
He is a very knowledgeable person and I often learn from him, and vice-versa, as we engage in many fascinating discussions.
I don't consider myself smarter with age, I may have better knowledge in some subjects but he does too, I think it is honestly interesting to hear the opinions of the young people then disregarding them completely.

Of course I’m talking in general terms, like the famous mocking t shirt and as generations of parents will testify “teenagers know everything” It’s meant in jest, a leg pull at strong views based on limited life experience. We can all look back at those years and recognise ourselves in this respect. And nobody said anything about disregarding completely or greater knowledge in somethings than others. But respectfully, it’s not the ME is it? You wouldn’t see kids leading UN negotiations and peace delegations for would you? Least I never have, but happy to be proven wrong.

 

[Bakero]

Rachel Riley has been very vociferous on social media in her support for Israel, on many, many topics. She does not like it when other people have different opinion to hers. In the last 24 hours she has ’tweeted’ about feeling fearful after seeing Palestinian flags in London. She is not Israeli, but is Jewish.

Criticise Rachel Riley as much as you want but when you say a religion is trying to control the media, you're moving onto dangerous ground. Especially when the faith in question has long been accused of doing just that.

 

[knekkebrød]

Age does come into things. I wouldn’t pay much attention to a five year olds opinion. The older you are, the more rounded rather your view might be, and there has been a influential pro Palestine bias in left liberal media for last few decades. And even political parties. That is ‘what on earth it has to do with it’, as I’m sure you could have worked out. The list of pro Hamas points struck me as rather naive, almost as if you’ve only listened to a Rock Stars understanding of something.

sometimes it is useful to try to understand why things happen. Not just condemn all the things you don't like and refuse to look at things from other perspectives.

I spent three months in a small conservative muslim village at the west bank. Playing football with the kids in the streets, observing how israeli settlements affected the daily life in Palestine, observing peaceful demonstrations against the occupation, protesting the wall, and how Israel steal land to build illegal settlements in the west bank, experienced how it is to get water once a week, how kids were arrested in random night raids, how it is to be teargassed. I drank tea with the youth every night, talking about dreams for the future. I tried to get a taste of how it is to live life as a palestinian, and they longed for the freedom we have here.

Ofcourse, as I have a norwegian passport and could leave any time, I never really got to experience their frustrations and how their lives are. But I think I got a glimpse of it, and I learned a lot. Not just about Palestine, but life in general.

 

[BadFish]

Rachel Riley has been very vociferous on social media in her support for Israel, on many, many topics. She does not like it when other people have different opinion to hers. In the last 24 hours she has ’tweeted’ about feeling fearful after seeing Palestinian flags in London. She is not Israeli, but is Jewish.

So was 'Judaism' a typo and you meant to say 'Rachel Riley is trying to control the media?'

 

[portlock seagull]

Much apologies I forgot to add the link.

Taylor Swift's New Album Rumored to Be about Israeli Prime Minister - The Mideast Beast

With Taylor Swift’s newest album, 1989, recent rumors have been swirling that the entire album is about Swift’s speculated former romance with Zionist

www.themideastbeast.com

Joking aside though, I have no idea what Taylor's take on the middle east is. I just think it is daft to judge it based on her age and occupation rather than what she actually says.

You do you though.

As said, I’d listen to JB all day long over the (highly limited, by practical nature of occupation) opinion of a rock star on such a complex centuries old conflict as the ME. She might have an opinion, I just wouldn’t choose to seek it out or listen to. She’s no credibility in that sense. And there would be hundreds of others I’d listen to before. In doesn’t cross my mind to listen to musicians opinion on current affairs. They’re typically not impartial and certainly not subject matter experts.

 

[BadFish]

Criticise Rachel Riley as much as you want but when you say a religion is trying to control the media, you're moving onto dangerous ground. Especially when the faith in question has long been accused of doing just that.

I am going to use this defence when I have said something I need to step away from just bang on about Rachel Riley and hope people get distracted. I think maybe some pictures would help too.

 

[BadFish]

As said, I’d listen to JB all day long over the (highly limited, by practical nature of occupation) opinion of a rock star on such a complex centuries old conflict as the ME. She might have an opinion, I just wouldn’t choose to seek it out or listen to. She’s no credibility in that sense. And there would be hundreds of others I’d listen to before. In doesn’t cross my mind to listen to musicians opinion on current affairs. They’re typically not impartial and certainly not subject matter experts.

Ah okay, so you will only converse with experts about subjects like the middle east?

Who did you think would be on this thread? The only person on here who has any direct contact with the Israel/Palestine situation you rudely dismissed as a 'millennial'.

Anyway, as I said you do you, it doesn't have to make any sense to me.

 

[Krafty]

You wouldn’t see kids leading UN negotiations and peace delegations for would you? Least I never have, but happy to be proven wrong.

I can think of one example, Greta Thunberg?

 

[Bakero]

I am going to use this defence when I have said something I need to step away from just bang on about Rachel Riley and hope people get distracted. I think maybe some pictures would help too.

It's impressive how she manages to dominate the media, control the world economy and do Countdown. Especially, seeing as she's just a millennial.

 

[knekkebrød]

I salute your beliefs. How do you separate non violence from the ME conversation though? It’s laudable as said, but far from reality. Almost naive. In war, civilians are always killed. Especially when it’s often impossible to distinguish military from civilian. Wishing, hoping, expecting even demanding it’s all neatly separated and observed doesn’t strike me as very realistic. Hamas have no option but to fight as they do. In conventional warfare, they’d be wiped out. Such guerrilla ‘forever’ warfare is incredibly hard to defeat with conventional methods. Israel also suffers from being held to higher ideals and scrutiny versus an enemy backed by a rogue state where anything goes. I’ve never seen Israelis parading naked dead women’s corpses through the streets and spitting on them. How can anyone defend such action, even by association.

The palestinians are unable to really challenge Israel with violence. What they can hope to do is tell their stories to us in the west. To raise their voices and possibly get enough attention to make us finally care.

Then their hope lies in us. That we in the west force Israel, for instance by boycotts and sanctions to give the palestinians the freedom they are denied.

Either by creating a palestinian state(two state solution), or by giving all palestinians full civil rights in Israel(one state solution).

Yes, it is naive. But also their only hope

 

[portlock seagull]

sometimes it is useful to try to understand why things happen. Not just condemn all the things you don't like and refuse to look at things from other perspectives.

I spent three months in a small conservative muslim village at the west bank. Playing football with the kids in the streets, observing how israeli settlements affected the daily life in Palestine, observing peaceful demonstrations against the occupation, protesting the wall, and how Israel steal land to build illegal settlements in the west bank, experienced how it is to get water once a week, how kids were arrested in random night raids, how it is to be teargassed. I drank tea with the youth every night, talking about dreams for the future. I tried to get a taste of how it is to live life as a palestinian, and they longed for the freedom we have here.

Ofcourse, as I have a norwegian passport and could leave any time, I never really got to experience their frustrations and how their lives are. But I think I got a glimpse of it, and I learned a lot. Not just about Palestine, but life in general.

Again, very laudable. It’s great to have these life experiences. You strike me as very human and compassionate amongst other admirable qualities. Sadly, I just cannot see the ME ever being resolved. An uneasy peace with tolerable day to day casualties is the most, history shows, we can hope for.

 

[BadFish]

Of course I’m talking in general terms, like the famous mocking t shirt and as generations of parents will testify “teenagers know everything” It’s meant in jest, a leg pull at strong views based on limited life experience. We can all look back at those years and recognise ourselves in this respect. And nobody said anything about disregarding completely or greater knowledge in somethings than others. But respectfully, it’s not the ME is it? You wouldn’t see kids leading UN negotiations and peace delegations for would you? Least I never have, but happy to be proven wrong.

So you are basis your theory of dismissing young people's understanding (let's not forget the rock stars) on a t-shirt??!!

 

[portlock seagull]

Ah okay, so you will only converse with experts about subjects like the middle east?

Who did you think would be on this thread? The only person on here who has any direct contact with the Israel/Palestine situation you rudely dismissed as a 'millennial'.

Anyway, as I said you do you, it doesn't have to make any sense to me.

You are such a drama Queen you really are. Having a nice civilised grown up conversation with the poster in question and others, whilst you snipe from the side bushes with silly points and pontificating tangent. Shoosh now, there’s a good Fish.

 

[portlock seagull]

So you are basis your theory of dismissing young people's understanding (let's not forget the rock stars) on a t-shirt??!!

As said, Shoosh now. Your conclusions are amusing even if your provocative nature is boring.