[News] Hamas/Gaza/Israel

[portlock seagull]

I’m not going to add any further comments to this post as it just infuriates me that posters have free range to post anti semetic comments on here about Israel but if that happened to any other country , the mods would be up in arms .

Clearly treating Israel fairly and not holding them up to standards they don’t hold other countries up to isn’t of any interest to the mods on NSC.

Happy to use their computer technology and medical technology though no doubt

 

[Live by the sea]

Why would a palestinian state turn into Afghanistan? Palestinians are a diverse people just like us. Some are very religious, about 20% are christian, but most people just want to live a normal life with dreams about a future for their families, to travel to the mediteranian sea in the weekends, play football, argue about Messi vs Christiano and so on. You can buy beer, wine and vodka in normal shops a lot of places in Palestine. Their biggest brewery is Taybeh. Check it out! =)

Some are that’s true but the majority voted for a terrorist group as their government. One that advocates death and destruction to Israel.

That is a huge difference to the just another regular country spin you are attempting to put on it .

Hamas charter is on the internet - check it out =)

 

[BadFish]

Some are that’s true but the majority voted for a terrorist group as their government. One that advocates death and destruction to Israel.

That is a huge difference to the just another regular country spin you are attempting to put on it .

Hamas charter is on the internet - check it out =)

For balance can you provide the Israel charter you mentioned earlier?

 

[Zeberdi]

No - Almost all western countries have shown support for Israel and heavily criticised the Palestinians.

No, almost all Western Countries have shown support for Israel and heavily criticised HAMAS - there is a difference

All of the retaliation by Israel has been on specific sites relating to Hamas and the things they need to control Gaza .

Read the quote above by Netanyahu - and this link (which I also posted above) that is NOT the level of retaliation it’s much broader - residential tower blocks, farms etc have also been targeted with a full scale ground assault increasingly likely

Fears of a ground invasion of Gaza grow as Israel vows ‘mighty vengeance’

The Israeli military is still fighting with Hamas in parts of southern Israel after it launched an attack there.

www.aljazeera.com

You only see the bad in Israel , you never acknowledge the 90% good . Like most countries , however you concentrate on any negatives you can find and never talk about all the good things and careful things they do , but of course you not heavily prejudiced are you .,,,,

That seems to be your position on the Palestinians tbh

I’m not going to add any further comments to this post as it just infuriates me that posters have free range to post anti semetic comments on here about Israel

As said before, I am myself Jewish

I have seen no anti-semitic comments about Israel on this thread - the last time anyone posted such sentiments on NSC was months ago they were immediately banned.

You’ve done nothing but inflame what is already a very complex and emotive subject with unfounded sweeping opinions when further reading and an openness to some of the complexities might help increase your knowledge around the subject - and you’ve done so whilst accusing fellow NSCers of anti-semitism, condoning brutality, supporting terrorism, being ‘deluded’, ‘ignorant’ and ‘accepting murder as fine’ - that’s completely unacceptable

 

[Guinness Boy]

To clarify what I meant was oppressing people because you can. Ie because of religion or another reason is terrible and without doubt one of the worst things you can do . However this case is unusual because the people involved are governed by a terrorist group and every month or every year some of these people are plotting to indiscriminately kill Israeli civilians .

The vast majority of Israelis would support a Palestinian state but their only massive concern is that if Palestinians had their own state it would very quickly turn into another Afghanistan and the militants in charge would turn their planes etc on Israel .

If you don’t appreciate that then I give up trying to explain it any further . You and dine other people on here seem to believe that both sides are equal in their behaviour , they are not . If Israel won’t to it could raze Gaza to the ground , but it wouldn’t because it has a code of conduct similar to the UK or other European countries . The Palestinians have no code of conduct and would try to kill everyone in Israel .

I’m sure your find a reason to ban me but I’m only saying what most western governments know which is why the European Union , UK, USA, Australia, etc are not putting pressure on Israel to agree a 2 state solution at the moment because it’s impossible with Hamas in charge .

You’ve neither explained nor understood what I wanted. Just a mealy mouthed excuse for your terrible wording followed by doubling down.

I’m very far from an Israel hater. I’ve worked for and with Israelis and have friends in Tel Aviv. They are good people and the ones I get on with didn’t vote for this terrible government, which is even now taking power from the Israeli courts, against massive protests. They are able to understand that from time to time their state goes too far. It’s a shame you can’t.

As for the highlighted bit, I already told you my assessment of the post report was to leave it and you and simply debate it. But if you start glorifying deaths of innocents in Gaza or come back with racism or Islamophobia you’ll be out of here permanently.

 

[vegster]

I have no hope that the ongoing fighting will ever be settled, there are so many grievances that can never be forgotten or forgiven and that's before the events of the last 24 hours.

The world keeps getting unsafer by the day. There is a mass of internal conflicts around the Eastern and Southern Mediterranean area which remain unresolved. We have the uptick in violence in Syria, the ongoing battle in Ukraine, and violent internal conflict in Somalia, Niger and Libya....every conflict usually involves the creation of desperate refugees seeking sanctuary elsewhere which in turn leads to more divisions and anger in the countries that host them.

This seems insoluble, we as a race are destroying ourselves and the planet.

 

[Live by the sea]

Before you go, can you just explain why you think that criticising the Israeli government is anti semetic?

I will ,

You’ve neither explained nor understood what I wanted. Just a mealy mouthed excuse for your terrible wording followed by doubling down.

I’m very far from an Israel hater. I’ve worked for and with Israelis and have friends in Tel Aviv. They are good people and the ones I get on with didn’t vote for this terrible government, which is even now taking power from the Israeli courts, against massive protests. They are able to understand that from time to time their state goes too far. It’s a shame you can’t.

As for the highlighted bit, I already told you my assessment of the post report was to leave it and you and simply debate it. But if you start glorifying deaths of innocents in Gaza or come back with racism or Islamophobia you’ll be out of here permanently.

I’m not glorying deaths of anyone nor would I ever do that. I said that Israel had the capability but wouldn’t behave like that !

I said that some Palestinians are glorying deaths , there are numerous social media postings of this and some even on the BBC .

Again how is that Islamophobia to report facts !

I’m not going to post anymore on this thread as fortunately in the big scheme of things your views however unreasonable aren’t going to make any difference to the conflict .

I’m sure your find another reason to ban me as I obviously don’t agree with your completely unreasonable view on this conflict or the likes of Westdene Seagull etc who presumably is allowed to be as anti sematic as he likes without any of the mods calling him out .

Israel is held to higher standards than any other country is clearly the message on NSC .

That’s anti sematic .

 

[BadFish]

.

That’s anti sematic .

No it isn't.

Your post is anti semantic though.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I will ,

I’m not glorying deaths of anyone nor would I ever do that. I said that Israel had the capability but wouldn’t behave like that !

I said that some Palestinians are glorying deaths , there are numerous social media postings of this and some even on the BBC .

Again how is that Islamophobia to report facts !

I’m not going to post anymore on this thread as fortunately in the big scheme of things your views however unreasonable aren’t going to make any difference to the conflict .

I’m sure your find another reason to ban me as I obviously don’t agree with your completely unreasonable view on this conflict or the likes of Westdene Seagull etc who presumably is allowed to be as anti sematic as he likes without any of the mods calling him out .

Israel is held to higher standards than any other country is clearly the message on NSC .

That’s anti sematic .

You still haven't explained how my posts critising the Israeli government are anti semetic ?

Maybe you need to watch the Tim Mitchin sketch called Peace Anthem Palestine. I'm sure you'll find it funny ..... unless you're Jewish or Muselim.

 

[wellquickwoody]

Accusing Israel of being a terror group is clearly an anti sematic statement

You are another Rachel Riley. Thinking only one side is allowed an opinion. News for you, Israel/Judaism might like to set the media agenda, do not be surprised that not everyone falls for the one sided diatribe,

 

[knekkebrød]

Has any western country said that or even intimated that ? No - Almost all western countries have shown support for Israel and heavily criticised the Palestinians.

Using banned weapons occasionally and in specific circumstances is not without precedent, The USA in the past have done it and so had the UK , are they terror groups as well ?

[snip]

No one here are supporting attacks on civilians either.

I visited Sderot(one of the israeli cities attacked yesterday) in 2013. To see how the playgrouds were designed so that some of the toys coud be used as bomb shelters did leave an impression.

However attacks carried out by Hamas on IDF are within their rights as an oppressed people under occupation and illegal blockade. Arrests of israeli soldiers are the same.

Are the use of banned weapons making [israel,] USA and GB terrorist states? Yes, stop it.

In the end we know from experience this bloodbath has just started. Israel are going to respond by flattening Gaza (according to Benjamin Netanyahu) and kill palestinians en masse. Like they did in their airstrikes yesterday. When that happens we have to do what it takes to stop it. By taking to the streets in UK, France, Norway (and so on) to protest.

The palestinian people are the ones that are denied their freedom. Yesterday the table flipped for a few hours, but now we're once again back to fearing for the palestinians. And this time I fear it's going to get worse than we've ever seen before.

 

[BadFish]

You still haven't explained how my posts critising the Israeli government are anti semetic ?

Reading between the lines, I think the suggestion is that because NSC is antisemetic we are holding Israel to a higher standard than other countries that don't have a majority Jewish population.

I am sure examples of said countries that have an equivalent number of UN resolutions against them and history of atrocities is forthcoming along with examples of our posts supporting those countries.

Otherwise it is just a highly offensive accusation that should be followed swiftly by an apology and/or ban. IMHO like.

 

[Krafty]

I’m not going to post anymore on this thread as fortunately in the big scheme of things your views however unreasonable aren’t going to make any difference to the conflict.

If you are unable to accept that there are reasonable points against what you have said, and therefore cannot form a discussion, then not posting is probably for the best.

I think that there are many NSCers who are knowledgeable about the subject and deeming them as invalid since it isn't compatible with your view is ridiculous - I personally find it better to read their opinions too and the sources that they've provided.

 

[pocketseagull]

. News for you, Israel/Judaism might like to set the media agenda,

This is an example of anti-semitism, criticising the Israeli government isn't.

 

[knekkebrød]

Some are that’s true but the majority voted for a terrorist group as their government. One that advocates death and destruction to Israel.

That is a huge difference to the just another regular country spin you are attempting to put on it .

Hamas charter is on the internet - check it out =)

I don't like the hamas charter. In fact I hate Hamas, but they are a lot more than just a terrorist group. Their popularity stems from what they do for palestinians in their everyday life.

Hamas provide health care and family support through for instance kindergardens. A bit like some christian organizations do in UK? Just bigger. Hamas has been a lot better at fighting corruption than Fatah(the secular alternative).

Most people dislike their religious conservatism, but put more faith in Hamas for fighting corruption and so on. Plus they're tired of all these years with Fatah in control and nothing to show from it.

On the west bank Hamas is still a minority. They're the majority only in Gaza. Palestinians used to be more secular in the past though, so things are changing. If you want to compare Palestine to a country Turkey would make more sense.

 

[portlock seagull]

Twitter Boy? Moron? Why resort to childish behaviour?

I choose side with the civilians living under occupation.
With the civilians that have had their homes and land stolen,
With the civilians that are denied the right to harvest from their own land
With the civilians living under an illegal blockade,
With the civilians that are denied the right to do bussiness and and provide for their families
With the children that are victims of random arrests
With the civilians that ar denied the right to travel freely in their own country
Witch civilians that are denied the right to a future
With a country that is a victim of an oppressor who decides to colonize the land with an ever increasing number of illegal settlements
To mention some.

Their leaders? Not so much.
I'm not happy with the corruption in Fatah, I'm not happy islamists like Hamas and islamic jihad have gained such popularity.
But do you know what? These are unfortunate facts. Not what the conflict between Israel and Palestine is about.

Israel is holding all the power.
Israel is pushing to make the palestinian state impossible
Israeli politicians made this apartheid state

All very laudable. Are you a millenial per chance?

 

[Bakero]

All very laudable. Are you a millenial per chance?

What on earth has being a millennial got to do wit my this?

 

[Bakero]

This is an example of anti-semitism, criticising the Israeli government isn't.

You're right. The addition of the word Judaism in there is completely unnecessary.

 

[Wardy's twin]

I think you misunderstand the use of the word ‘apartheid’ in the context of the Israel-Palestinian conflict

Israel’s occupation of Palestinian Territory is ‘apartheid’: UN rights expert

Calling on the international community to accept and adopt the recent findings in his report, an independent human rights expert said on Friday that “apartheid is being practiced by Israel in the occupied Palestinian territory”.

news.un.org

The document is an opinion, IMO the word is used emotionally to stir a reaction rather than a statement of fact e.g. Beram Kayal would not have got where he was if it was an apartheid state. What I do agree with is that there is increasing polarisation between the communities partly due to Israeli expansion of Jewish areas within Israel and Iran stoking the fire. One is under Israel's control to stop the other is not.

 

[WATFORD zero]

This thread is just reflective of NSC generally, lots of posters giving views and interested in learning more about an incredibly complex long standing conflict in the interests of trying to find a peaceful solution to innocent people being killed.

Interspersed with a few odd bigots desperately trying to avoid any detail that may prick their bubble of ignorance. (But possibly less actual bigots than NSC accounts )