Gordon Brown must be desperate.

[larus]

Buzzer's a commie
Buzzer's a commie
nah-nah-nah-nah-nah.

 

[Buzzer]

Bullies, the lot of you.

Just 'cause I'm all posh and stuff innit.

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

Not quite so clear cut though. The railways might have worked a lot better when privatised if only the legislation hadn't been rushed through.

Maybe if they were privatised as one company it could have worked, but why bother doing that?
We could have kept it nationalised and with the investment since privatisation combined with the profits that the private companies are now making, could have a much better network by now.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Buzzer Bragg

 

[larus]

This also applies to:

Water
Gas
Electricity
Telecommunications

Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Maybe - not convinced either way on this.

And railways, I think I would prefer now to see public ownership, however with stringent targets and investment.

 

[vitusvivi]

f*** em... f*** it... let's do some anarchy. Who's with me?

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Maybe - not convinced either way on this.

And railways, I think I would prefer now to see public ownership, however with stringent targets and investment.

Blimey another Tory sounding rather left wing!!!

I think the stringent targets and investment should apply to Electricity, Gas and Water in public ownership.

Are you talking about investment or stringent investment when you talk about the railways?

 

[larus]

I am. What are the rules for this anarchy?

 

[Buzzer]

I am. What are the rules for this anarchy?

Do I get priority because I'm a Bullingdon Club Gold member? I've still got the ticket stub from the Corpus Christi College Summer Ball if that's any help.

 

[larus]

Blimey another Tory sounding rather left wing!!!

I think the stringent targets and investment should apply to Electricity, Gas and Water in public ownership.

Are you talking about investment or stringent investment when you talk about the railways?

We need to invest in the infrastructure of this country. However, we need to be able to ensure that 'value' is achieved through this. Targets are crap, just look as the NHS and the targets. Don't mean jack-shit. All that managers do (at all levels) is work to make the targets better through whatever means. There has been too much money thrown at the NHS when it wasn't in a position to spend it wisely. I want money spent on the NHS, but I want value and not waste/beaurocracy.

All this money, yet wards still don't get cleaned properly (according to reports).

 

[larus]

Do I get priority because I'm a Bullingdon Club Gold member? I've still got the ticket stub from the Corpus Christi College Summer Ball if that's any help.

We need to see the potos from the initiation ceremony as proof of membership. Rumour has it that the initiations are the stuff of legends.

 

[larus]

..?

 

[Titanic]

Nice quote from BBC Have Your Say...

"Excellent. Peter Mandelson will add a much needed air of financial probity with Margaret Beckett adding a touch of charm and glamour.

That should do the trick...."

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

We need to invest in the infrastructure of this country. However, we need to be able to ensure that 'value' is achieved through this. Targets are crap, just look as the NHS and the targets. Don't mean jack-shit. All that managers do (at all levels) is work to make the targets better through whatever means. There has been too much money thrown at the NHS when it wasn't in a position to spend it wisely. I want money spent on the NHS, but I want value and not waste/beaurocracy.

All this money, yet wards still don't get cleaned properly (according to reports).

I agree with you that we need investment in all the public services and the money needs to be spent wisely, but how can results and improvements be achieved without some sort of target based system?
How for example would you ensure that the railways were run efficiently if they were hypothetically nationalised?

Talking about the cleaning of hospital wards, is this not down to the heavy use of private contractors to do the cleaning?

 

[larus]

I agree with you that we need investment in all the public services and the money needs to be spent wisely, but how can results and improvements be achieved without some sort of target based system?
How for example would you ensure that the railways were run efficiently if they were hypothetically nationalised?

Talking about the cleaning of hospital wards, is this not down to the heavy use of private contractors to do the cleaning?

There needs to some some way of measuring the performance, and of course this needs to be relative to something, which is obviously a target.

However, the targets in the NHS for waiting times for example, were manipulated by moving people from one queue to another. So after waiting to get an appointment, if you then had the appoinment and got referred to a specialist, you got removed from one queue and put in the consultants queue.

I think this is why so many of the population don't trust politicians/civil servants, as the information we get is lies or half truths.

As for cleaning in the wards, I wouldn't agree it was down to private companies. It's down to the terms of the contract. Clearly define what is expected, and then enforce it, with penalty clauses. If they can't do it right, then get someone else in.

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

There needs to some some way of measuring the performance, and of course this needs to be relative to something, which is obviously a target.

However, the targets in the NHS for waiting times for example, were manipulated by moving people from one queue to another. So after waiting to get an appointment, if you then had the appoinment and got referred to a specialist, you got removed from one queue and put in the consultants queue.

I think this is why so many of the population don't trust politicians/civil servants, as the information we get is lies or half truths.

As for cleaning in the wards, I wouldn't agree it was down to private companies. It's down to the terms of the contract. Clearly define what is expected, and then enforce it, with penalty clauses. If they can't do it right, then get someone else in.

But clearly using private companies to clean wards isn't working because even though they have contracts with the NHS, they aren't adhering to the said contracts. I personally think it should be done in house, where a NHS manager then has direct control of the cleaners in each hospital or building that they do the cleaning in.

So what you are saying is have targets but ones that are not easy to manipulate?

 

[larus]

But clearly using private companies to clean wards isn't working because even though they have contracts with the NHS, they aren't adhering to the said contracts. I personally think it should be done in house, where a NHS manager then has direct control of the cleaners in each hospital or building that they do the cleaning in.

So what you are saying is have targets but ones that are not easy to manipulate?

Yes. I suppose there are some with railways that are fairly easy to judge, such as punctuality. I'm sure there are others that are more subjective; say the cleanliness of the toilets at stations/on trains.

As far as cleaning goes in the NHS, I think in-house full-time cleaners makes more sense. I can see no benefit to having contracted out companies doing this.

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

Yes. I suppose there are some with railways that are fairly easy to judge, such as punctuality. I'm sure there are others that are more subjective; say the cleanliness of the toilets at stations/on trains.

As far as cleaning goes in the NHS, I think in-house full-time cleaners makes more sense. I can see no benefit to having contracted out companies doing this.

Are you gradually being converted to the left wing way of thinking?!!!

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

" limp bloody socialist

limp bloody socialists shall inherit the earth. Or most banks at the very least

 

[Storer68]

Just watched him walk in to my Department.......

Nice sweater sir... Suits you.