So, if you look at a lit candle in the sun you're saying the light from the candle no longer exists? How do you work that out? You may not be able to see it, but it can be measured, tested and predicted.
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GOD: How much do you believe in him?
- Thread starter El Presidente
- Start date
So, if you look at a lit candle in the sun you're saying the light from the candle no longer exists? How do you work that out? You may not be able to see it, but it can be measured, tested and predicted.
DIRK STEELE
Banned
He believed in a steady state theory.. and did not believe in the evolution of chemicals to explain how life began. What are these later calculations?
Oh dear, now I'm dumb. Pretty sure I'm not, no it's been tested by science, I'm not.
Read Simon Singh's excellent 'Big Bang'. Can't find my copy at the moment. Yes, he was wrong about Steady State (and didn't have any observations to back it up), but that didn't mean EVERYTHING he touched was rubbish. In a long career there was plenty he did right.
It's an analogy.
DIRK STEELE
Banned
This is where we part company.... because you feel everything is so mysterious then 'how can it occur by accident or chance'? Incredulous belief syndrome! Well once upon a time the sun and the stars.. not to mention the wind and the rain were 'mysterious' and thus attributed to 'god'. But surely we have progressed a little bit... just a little??
DIRK STEELE
Banned
Maybe... but tell me what! Cos I have seen nothing... But he did write some ok science fiction...
Maybe I have misinterpreted your point. If you are saying that believing intelligent life is likely to have evolved due to the number of planets in the world is disingenuous, then that is saying we're either lying or we're mad - maybe that's not what you mean.
I disagree, and I don't see why that makes me disingenuos.
Yes, because that's before people knew how many planets there were in the universe, and before they had been taught about evolution. It wouldn't have been a simple idea 500 years ago, it would have been a far out whacky idea. But I think it's a simple explanation now.
I agree that it encourages us to look for answers and have an open mind, and be more likely to find what we're looking for. But I also accept that some people found god without looking or without feeling a need.
DIRK STEELE
Banned
No and I would agree that he contributed much to science at the time.... but he was not around to see the discovery of the background radiation nor the fact that the universe is expanding... and he would have changed his views. I agree he was a great scientist... in his time! I just hate people quoting his views to back up their unscientific beliefs. Hey.. Einstein was wrong about quantum physics but that does not invalidate his relativity theories.
In trying to work out the routes of stellar nucleosynthesis, he observed that one particular nuclear reaction, the triple-alpha process, which generates carbon, would require the carbon nucleus to have a very specific energy for it to work. The large amount of carbon in the universe, which makes it possible for carbon-based life-forms (e.g. humans) to exist, demonstrated that this nuclear reaction must work. Based on this notion, he made a prediction of the energy levels in the carbon nucleus that was later borne out by experiment.
DIRK STEELE
Banned
Well... you may think you are not dumb... but so do cows and sheep. Can you even define what science is? I would love to hear you view.
That's science for you! Always moving, refining and retesting, just as it should.
I agree about the misuse of quotes - it's the typical 'everything black-and-white' good vs evil belief the pervades through opinion. What I love about science is the fact that it's good the say 'we don't know yet, but we're trying to find out.' In religion not knowing = god. In science it means work.
DIRK STEELE
Banned
Yes he did work on the hydrogen and helium elements within stars and stuff I am not familiar with.... but my point was that.. all great scientists are not right all of the time (newton?)and that for unscientific people to then quote those mistakes and claim a victory is a pretty mean thing to do...
DIRK STEELE
Banned
Yes I agree.... not knowing for some strange reason = god. The god of the gaps.... yes and science means work whilst religion means ?
You (and me) disagree with someone's view, but that doesn't mean that all scientists ignore problems with their arguement. In fact, has the person you disagree with said he's a scientist?
Where the energy for the big bang came from, or where god came from, is equally hard to explain. In my mind, it's basically a draw in the debate.
Finally! A draw, can we blow the whistle on this thread now?
Cows and sheep don't pass MENSA entry but that was back in the days I cared about that sort of thing.
I like science because one day I believe it will prove the existence of most things you deny.
The same way we can watch 'Most Haunted Live' and still not believe in ghosts, the same way we can watch Derren Brown and not believe in magic or psychic powers. The same way religious people can watch documentaries on evolution and still believe creation theory
The Thinking Atheist - View Blogpost
Why Can't You Leave Religion Alone?
The Thinking Atheist 2011-01-28 14:00:54 | Date Modified: 2011-05-31 12:04:54
The protests come every day from the religious, and they go something like this:
* "Why spend your time disproving God?"
* "Why not just let people believe what they want to believe?"
* "Why can't you leave religion alone?"
As one YouTube commenter said recently, "No one can explain to me why it is so important to convince theists to abandon their beliefs."
The answer is simple. Pages like this one exist because religion exists.
Religion permeates our culture, shows up on our doorsteps with literature, scriptures and threats of eternal damnation, influences our science books, contaminates our political systems, indoctrinates our children and postulates that its doctrine must be followed, lest we be destroyed in body, in soul, or both.
Non-believers are simply responding to the avalanche of religious messages that bears down upon us daily.
Religion gets carte blanche to be as vocal as it wants, to knock on our doors and accost us in our homes, in our places of work, in our personal and professional lives. Believers are charged with a life mission to preach, teach, disciple, shout it from the mountaintops and to "go ye into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature." Religion...is everywhere.
Ask yourself. When's the last time an atheist rang your doorbell with the Good News of Humanism? How often do you find Richard Dawkins books in the dresser drawers of your hotel rooms? When was the last atheist temple erected in your neighborhood? Have you ever attended an atheist revival? Has atheism demanded 10% of your household income? How many dedicated atheist television channels come through your satellite dish? How many atheist verses were you instructed to memorize as a child? When's the last time someone thanked a FARMER (or even the cook) at the dinner table instead of God?
On a more radical front, what's the name of the last atheist who sawed the head off of an "infidel?" Or sentenced a shrouded woman to death for displeasing an oppressive husband? Or strapped explosives to his belt in order to kill hundreds in a public square? Or publicly hung a gay person for his lifestyle?
It's everywhere. Religion is a pounding drum that has gone mostly unanswered for a long, long time. And religion is not satisfied with merely existing quietly in the homes and hearts of the faithful. Its very nature compels the believer to proselytize, preach, promote, convince, convert and prevail. If you play on the team of the religious, your game plan is to stay, always, on offense.
Throughout our history, those who raise a simple hand of protest against these advances have been portrayed as the real problem. Religion has attempted to marginalize and defeat legitimate questions and concerns by indignantly portraying any resistors as misguided, immoral, rudderless, angry, miserable, lost and alone.
And when skepticism challenges wildly improbable (or impossible) stories found in the bible, the Qur'an and other holy books, the religious wail, "Why can't you just leave us alone?"
The irony is thick.
And religion impedes curiosity and inhibits learning, as the much-maligned Creation Museum proves. It stymies critical thinking. It stretches us to believe the unbelievable. And it poisons the foundational teachings we are using to train up the generations of tomorrow.
Pages like mine exist as a response... a counter-argument to ensure that the cacophony of superstition does not go unchallenged. And if your belief system is so undeniable, so factual, so provable, so real and so true, certainly it can withstand the opposing viewpoints presented here and elsewhere. Certainly, it can survive the acid tests.
Just remember. Religion began the argument. It amplifies itself before the world. And it threatens all mankind with punishment upon its rejection.
We are atheists. We are moral. We are reasonable. We are thoughtful, intelligent, compassionate, happy, fulfilled and well-informed.
And as long as religion insists on fixing human beings who are not broken, we will respond with the evidence that we are not the problem.
-end
DIRK STEELE
Banned
No.. this thread will probably exist for longer than the word association thread... personally I am happy that people have their faith or whatever it takes to allow them to live their lives in joy. As long as they do not impose... or preach... or scare little children into obedience.. or deny science for their own ends etc etc... the truth will emerge eventually... Nighty night.... (las vegan time.... I gotta be up at 6 a.m to listen to the game!! Any live streams
? )