GOD: How much do you believe in him?

[readingstockport]

I'm sorry, but you cannot call Mother Teresa a vindictive old cow just because she followed the teachings of her Catholic faith while ministering to the poor. The problem is not with Saint Teresa, but with the teachings of the Catholic Church, but that is a separate issue.

Yes I can and I did. She could have chosen to show true charity and minister to all those who needed help. She chose not to. CHOSE, she was not forced by the pope to do so, she sodding well chose to do it.

Ergo she was a vindictive and vicious and hateful old cow. The world, and India, is better off without her and those who seek to venerate her are no better than she was.

 

[readingstockport]

That's the strange thing about the universe. It goes on and on and on but what is at the other side of it? Another universe? And what is at the other side of all the other universes? More universes? We are human and we understand beginning, middle, end. Stop. Start. We cannot conceive that the universe doesn't end. It must have an end. But what is on the other side of that end? Nothing? How can there be nothing? Neither can we conceive of the universe at the beginning of creation. (Never mind the science.) A nothing can't just become something, can it? The universe must have started at some point? But what was there before the universe started? A previous universe? etc. etc. And will the universe die? If it does, then what?

We know, therefore, that the universe (or whatever was there before this particular universe, and the ones before that) was always here and always will be, in some form or another.

We also know it has no physical boundary, that there is no edge to it, inasmuch as beyond the universe is something else, perhaps the thing called "nothing".

None of this means the universe was created by a creator, but it does remind me of where the Bible says: "God hath no beginning and He hath no end". Same with the unverse/s.

The fact that you, and much of humankind at the moment, are unable to conceive of what 'happened before the big bang' as creatards like to characterise it does not mean that everyone is nor does it mean that the knowledge will be forever un-knowable. 400 years ago humankind would never have been able to conceive of the motorcar but now almost all people know of them and understand them. 400 years ago a motorcar would have been dismissed as magic or the working of an imaginary supreme being. Now, through scientific rationalism, we know better.

I actually feel slightly sorry for the religious and the creatards. The gods of the gaps is having to find ever smaller gaps to hide in. And the lies told by the religious to create those gaps are becoming more and more obvious.

 

[bhaexpress]

"Religion is a construct of man" is a statement, not a factual piece of evidence.

If you can't understand why people who live in poverty generally have such strong faith then you're not understanding humanity nor the situation they face.

Well first of all I didn't say but then again, so who actually came up with the idea of religion ? Did one the of various higher authorities pay a visit to mother earth to get the ball rolling ? Come off it, you can't be that stupid ?

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

I haven't mentioned faith. I have no need for it.

WHAT?! Everyone's gotta have faith...

 

[MattBackHome]

WHAT?! Everyone's gotta have faith...

ARF! Nice one, Si. Some tight, ripped jeans aroung George Michael's lunchbox is just what this thread required. Finally something to believe in!

 

[readingstockport]

If you can't understand why people who live in poverty generally have such strong faith then you're not understanding humanity nor the situation they face.

If you can't understand it then you are the one who is misunderstanding. They have 'faith' as they have so little else in this world that they willingly believe the lies told them by the powerful in the hope that the 'next life' will be better. That way instead of agitating for real change in this, the only life they will ever have, they place their faith in an imaginary being in the blind hope that things will be better for them after they die.

Fall to your knees and worship and I will reward you for your sufferings in this life when you reach the next one. Oh, and while you're at it just put your money into this offertray so that the priests can live in oppulence while you starve in a hovel.

It is no coincidence that, in general, religious faith is strongest amongst the least educated worldwide and atheism is strongest amongst the most educated.

Edited to clarify the point I was making about 'understanding', or rather the lack of it.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

ARF! Nice one, Si. Some tight, ripped jeans aroung George Michael's lunchbox is just what this thread required. Finally something to believe in!

It seemed like the right and appropriate thing to do.

 

[HovaGirl]

You completely misunderstand the nature of faith.

Do you have faith that the Albion will, one day, be in the Premier League?

I haven't mentioned faith. I have no need for it.

I would very much love Albion to be in the Premier League, and given our current quality, stadium and finances (and manager!) I wouldn't bet against us being Prem one day. Faith doesn't enter into it.

You said, in a previous post: "Another one to throw into the mix here: That which can be asserted without evidence, can be refuted without evidence. They should f***ing teach that at schools."

The essence of having faith, is to believe in something, without having the evidence for it.

You may have faith in Rihanna being brilliant in her concert, or that Murray will win the US Open (one day), or that Albion will make the premier league. There is no evidence that any of these things WILL happen, but many of their fans have faith in their idol to deliver. I was simply using your possible faith in the Albion getting into the Premier League as an example of having faith in something. (Faith doesn't only have to be about religion.) I'm sorry you didn't get my point or felt that it was irrelevant to you.

 

[HovaGirl]

That's the strange thing about the universe. It goes on and on and on but what is at the other side of it? Another universe? And what is at the other side of all the other universes? More universes? We are human and we understand beginning, middle, end. Stop. Start. We cannot conceive that the universe doesn't end. It must have an end. But what is on the other side of that end? Nothing? How can there be nothing? Neither can we conceive of the universe at the beginning of creation. (Never mind the science.) A nothing can't just become something, can it? The universe must have started at some point? But what was there before the universe started? A previous universe? etc. etc. And will the universe die? If it does, then what?

We know, therefore, that the universe (or whatever was there before this particular universe, and the ones before that) was always here and always will be, in some form or another.

We also know it has no physical boundary, that there is no edge to it, inasmuch as beyond the universe is something else, perhaps the thing called "nothing".

None of this means the universe was created by a creator, but it does remind me of where the Bible says: "God hath no beginning and He hath no end". Same with the unverse/s.

Most of that is completely unsubstantiated bollocks.

You seem to use the word 'we' to mean everyone from uneducated infants to quantum physicists and astronomers. THIS universe (the one we live in) had a beginning and will have an end. The start (and end) is a singularity - outside of it has no effect on this universe. I strongly suggest reading 'The Big Bang' by Simon Singh - a cracking read and step-by-step guide to how and why we (humanity) know what we do. The information you say 'we' don't know is there. Just because you don't understand it, or haven't heard about it doesn't mean it can't be shown to, read, tested and understood by you.

Of course it's unsubstantiated bollocks! That's the nature of wondering about things and I'm sure many people, from time to time, wonder about the universe, where it came from, etc. I did say, in my post, "never mind the science". I don't want to get into a detailed scientific debate on the findings of Newton, Einstein and Hawkings, relativity theory or black holes. Current thinking is there has been more than one big bang, that "ours" was not the first.

 

[readingstockport]

Of course it's unsubstantiated bollocks! That's the nature of wondering about things and I'm sure many people, from time to time, wonder about the universe, where it came from, etc. I did say, in my post, "never mind the science". I don't want to get into a detailed scientific debate on the findings of Newton, Einstein and Hawkings, relativity theory or black holes. Current thinking is there has been more than one big bang, that "ours" was not the first.

But the whole point is that you can not say "never mind the science". The entire debate about the origins of the universe are either 'science says this...' which has verifiable evidence and testable hypotheses to back it up or 'goddit' which is totally unverifable.

And current thinking is not that ours was not the first 'big bang'. One thread of current scientific thinking is that there may have been previous singularity events. Other threads of scientific thinking relate to multiverses and recently evidence was published that could, possibly, lead in this direction.

However NO EVIDENCE EVER PUBLISHED ANYWHERE says goddit. Ever.

 

[El Presidente]

Never mind George Michael, I think Gary Numan sums it up well when singing to GOD about the death of his unborn daughter

 

[MattBackHome]

However NO EVIDENCE EVER PUBLISHED ANYWHERE says goddit. Ever.

Precisely this - hence the invention of 'Faith'.

 

[HovaGirl]

But the whole point is that you can not say "never mind the science". The entire debate about the origins of the universe are either 'science says this...' which has verifiable evidence and testable hypotheses to back it up or 'goddit' which is totally unverifable.

And current thinking is not that ours was not the first 'big bang'. One thread of current scientific thinking is that there may have been previous singularity events. Other threads of scientific thinking relate to multiverses and recently evidence was published that could, possibly, lead in this direction.

However NO EVIDENCE EVER PUBLISHED ANYWHERE says goddit. Ever.

I meant "never mind the science" because I was being philosophical, not scientific. This whole debate is philosophical but very few seem to realise that.

 

[djm21]

In answer to the thread title, i believe in him 100%.

 

[teaboy]

I meant "never mind the science" because I was being philosophical, not scientific. This whole debate is philosophical but very few seem to realise that.

A philosophical debate would be more along the lines of "do we, in the 21st century, need the concept of higher beings?"

That wasn't the question. It was about god, and looking at the options available in the poll it's about the judeo-christian god.

 

[djm21]

This has gone quiet.

 

[djm21]

AWESOME!

 

[djm21]

awesome!

turn it up!!

 

[seagullmouse]

I started this thread being an atheist, but the logic and argument put forward by those with faith has been so convincing that I have now decided that I firmly believe in god and jesus.... and the tooth fairy. The last of which is particularly interesting to me and I have decided to devote my life to the tooth fairy's teachings.

So please join me in the Tooth Fairy's prayer

Our teeth who art in mouth
Hallowed be thy gums
Give us this day our daily brushing
...etc etc

Its just a faith guys so I won't offer you any logical argument I will just expect you to join me.

Thank you wise faithful people for showing me the path of the tooth and away from logic and reason.

Remember our TOOTH FAIRY is an AWESOME TOOTH FAIRY

 

[djm21]

I started this thread being an atheist, but the logic and argument put forward by those with faith has been so convincing that I have now decided that I firmly believe in god and jesus.... and the tooth fairy. The last of which is particularly interesting to me and I have decided to devote my life to the tooth fairy's teachings.

So please join me in the Tooth Fairy's prayer

Our teeth who art in mouth
Hallowed be thy gums
Give us this day our daily brushing
...etc etc

Its just a faith guys so I won't offer you any logical argument I will just expect you to join me.

Thank you wise faithful people for showing me the path of the tooth and away from logic and reason.

Remember our TOOTH FAIRY is an AWESOME TOOTH FAIRY

Carry on living with your eyes closed