GOD: How much do you believe in him?

[El Presidente]

Genuine question. Is the pope and his church's representatives in Africa still telling people not to use condoms to prevent the spread of aids, or are they still spreading the misinformation that condoms don't work like that?

I thought you just needed to take a shower after sex to prevent Aids?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/4879822.stm

 

[El Presidente]

I still can't get my head around that if people who believe in God say that someone/thing had to create the universe, as it cannot have existed for eternity, then shirley someone/thing had to create God on the same premise?

 

[teaboy]

I still can't get my head around that if people who believe in God say that someone/thing had to create the universe, as it cannot have existed for eternity, then shirley someone/thing had to create God on the same premise?

Well, I'll agree with them on that one....

 

[Acker79]

A lot of people say Christian just because they were Christened. They've not been to church or have read the bible ever. The next generation should reduce the number to 20% hopefully, for proper minority status. It didn't help the way the question was put on the census.

That was something that was covered in the article from which I got my figures:

There was a new census this year.
Religion and belief: some surveys and statistics

In a poll conducted by YouGov in March 2011 on behalf of the BHA, when asked the census question "What is your religion?", 61% of people in England and Wales ticked a religious box (53.48% Christian and 7.22% other) while 39% ticked "No religion".

When the same sample was asked the follow-up question "Are you religious?", only 29% of the same people said "Yes" while 65% said "No", meaning over half of those whom the census would count as having a religion said they were not religious.

Less than half (48%) of those who ticked "Christian" said they believed that Jesus Christ was a real person who died and came back to life and was the son of God.

Asked when they had last attended a place of worship for religious reasons, most people in England and Wales (63%) had not attended in the past year, 43% of people last attended over a year ago and 20% of people had never attended. Only 9% of people had attended a place of worship within the last week.

As of the 1st of January this year, the population of the UK was estimated at 62,435,709.
53.48% of that = 33,390,617(.1732)

 

[bhaexpress]

I still can't get my head around that if people who believe in God say that someone/thing had to create the universe, as it cannot have existed for eternity, then shirley someone/thing had to create God on the same premise?

According to the Catechism, 'God always was, always is and always will be'.

 

[bhaexpress]

None of which has any relevance to answering the question does "a god" exist.

It does when the assertion is that 'Religion is a construct of man'. After all, who actually spreads the 'Good Word' ? What I find so baffling is how so many opeople who live in poverty and repression can actually believe that there's a higher power somewhere looking out for them when to any rational minded person this is just not the case.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Genuine question. Is the pope and his church's representatives in Africa still telling people not to use condoms to prevent the spread of aids, or are they still spreading the misinformation that condoms don't work like that?

The answer to that is no.

While they will not hand them out, they refer anyone who has questions or needs in regards to sex or stds to the local health clinic where they can get as much information and condoms as they require

Misinformation goes the other way too.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

It does when the assertion is that 'Religion is a construct of man'. After all, who actually spreads the 'Good Word' ? What I find so baffling is how so many opeople who live in poverty and repression can actually believe that there's a higher power somewhere looking out for them when to any rational minded person this is just not the case.

"Religion is a construct of man" is a statement, not a factual piece of evidence.

If you can't understand why people who live in poverty generally have such strong faith then you're not understanding humanity nor the situation they face.

 

[OzMike]

I think people spend too much time and energy on religion whilst the real problems in the world get ignored.
Does it really matter if there is or isn't a god, the only problem is that if no one ever dreamed up one, people would no doubt find something else to fight about.
I have trouble understanding why we don't pull together instead of in opposite directions.
As far as believing or not believing I really don't care, it has no influence how I live my life, I try to put my faith in human nature and every now and again it does shine through.
Here endeth the Ozmike philosophy.

 

[HovaGirl]

So, if you have one particular view of this subject (ie yours) then contributions to the thread are fine, but if you have a different view on the subject then "you have nothing further to contribute"? How is your opinion more relevant than mine? Or anyone else's?

No, that's not what I said. You don't believe God exists. Full stop. Nothing more to say, I would have thought. I haven't actually said whether I believe in God or not or whether I think God exists. All I've done all the way through this thread is take a philosophical view, in wondering what God could be and in suggesting that God is or should be separate from religion.

 

[HovaGirl]

And in 2011 (i.e. this year) that was down to (a youguv poll estimated) 34m (rounding up). You don't need to use outdated data, 34m is more han half the population of the country, a not insignificant number and perfectly respectable and fitting with the point you are trying to make.

I couldn't find today's figure, and said so earlier in the thread, so thank you for finding it.

 

[HovaGirl]

the old vindictive cow was being used as an example in this thread as how she did so much for the poor. She didn't. End of story. She selectively helped certain people who fitted into her narrow bigoted viewpoint of how they should behave. Those who did not fit into her vicious bigoted worldview were shown the door with no support and no help.

That is NOT charitable, it is sick and twisted. That warped little horror of a woman was less saintly than many mass murders imo. She WAS a mass murderer, turning away those who she did not like to die in the streets?

Strange definition of sainthood and charity you have.

And so what if the teachings of her imaginary god say abortion is wrong. Her crappy church is wrong and a decent person would have had the moral courage to stand up and say that.

I'm sorry, but you cannot call Mother Teresa a vindictive old cow just because she followed the teachings of her Catholic faith while ministering to the poor. The problem is not with Saint Teresa, but with the teachings of the Catholic Church, but that is a separate issue.

 

[HovaGirl]

Another one to throw into the mix here: That which can be asserted without evidence, can be refuted without evidence. They should f***ing teach that at schools.

You completely misunderstand the nature of faith.

Do you have faith that the Albion will, one day, be in the Premier League?

 

[HovaGirl]

I still can't get my head around that if people who believe in God say that someone/thing had to create the universe, as it cannot have existed for eternity, then shirley someone/thing had to create God on the same premise?

That's the strange thing about the universe. It goes on and on and on but what is at the other side of it? Another universe? And what is at the other side of all the other universes? More universes? We are human and we understand beginning, middle, end. Stop. Start. We cannot conceive that the universe doesn't end. It must have an end. But what is on the other side of that end? Nothing? How can there be nothing? Neither can we conceive of the universe at the beginning of creation. (Never mind the science.) A nothing can't just become something, can it? The universe must have started at some point? But what was there before the universe started? A previous universe? etc. etc. And will the universe die? If it does, then what?

We know, therefore, that the universe (or whatever was there before this particular universe, and the ones before that) was always here and always will be, in some form or another.

We also know it has no physical boundary, that there is no edge to it, inasmuch as beyond the universe is something else, perhaps the thing called "nothing".

None of this means the universe was created by a creator, but it does remind me of where the Bible says: "God hath no beginning and He hath no end". Same with the unverse/s.

 

[HovaGirl]

According to the Catechism, 'God always was, always is and always will be'.

Just like the universe. (As I said in my previous post, upthread.)

 

[HovaGirl]

It does when the assertion is that 'Religion is a construct of man'. After all, who actually spreads the 'Good Word' ? What I find so baffling is how so many opeople who live in poverty and repression can actually believe that there's a higher power somewhere looking out for them when to any rational minded person this is just not the case.

I think that's possibly the whole point. Their existence is so awful, they pray that the higher power, or their God, will help them. Let's not debate whether he ever does, but faith is often the route to hope.

 

[cheeseroll]

That's the strange thing about the universe. It goes on and on and on but what is at the other side of it? Another universe? And what is at the other side of all the other universes? More universes? We are human and we understand beginning, middle, end. Stop. Start. We cannot conceive that the universe doesn't end. It must have an end. But what is on the other side of that end? Nothing? How can there be nothing? Neither can we conceive of the universe at the beginning of creation. (Never mind the science.) A nothing can't just become something, can it? The universe must have started at some point? But what was there before the universe started? A previous universe? etc. etc. And will the universe die? If it does, then what?

We know, therefore, that the universe (or whatever was there before this particular universe, and the ones before that) was always here and always will be, in some form or another.

We also know it has no physical boundary, that there is no edge to it, inasmuch as beyond the universe is something else, perhaps the thing called "nothing".

None of this means the universe was created by a creator, but it does remind me of where the Bible says: "God hath no beginning and He hath no end". Same with the unverse/s.

That is brilliantly put, i'm pissed but I whole-heartily agree with your uncertainties.

.

 

[HovaGirl]

I think people spend too much time and energy on religion whilst the real problems in the world get ignored.
Does it really matter if there is or isn't a god, the only problem is that if no one ever dreamed up one, people would no doubt find something else to fight about.
I have trouble understanding why we don't pull together instead of in opposite directions.
As far as believing or not believing I really don't care, it has no influence how I live my life, I try to put my faith in human nature and every now and again it does shine through.
Here endeth the Ozmike philosophy.

While religion is often at the root of wars, the Christian faith, certainly is at the root of a lot of charity work. Many Christian groups have been founded to help people, such as the Salvation Army, the Boy Scouts and Girl Guides, the YMCA and many, many others, including some schools. In that respect, Christianity does focus on real problems of poverty and hardship and one of the fundamental good uses of a religion, such as Christianity, is the very fact that it pulls (Christian) people together. It is the abandonment of religion, I think, which is pulling people apart. That you put your faith in human nature is pretty close to what God could be - human nature - that bond between us all which can be and is used for universal good. If there wasn't or isn't a God, it is human nature to invent one, to invent something to believe in. A faith or belief in God has been replaced, these days, by the idolisation of pop and film stars, football teams, political parties and all sorts of other people and organisations which help people to have a sense of belonging and a sense of community, because that sense of community is what holds people together.

 

[MattBackHome]

You completely misunderstand the nature of faith.

Do you have faith that the Albion will, one day, be in the Premier League?

I haven't mentioned faith. I have no need for it.

I would very much love Albion to be in the Premier League, and given our current quality, stadium and finances (and manager!) I wouldn't bet against us being Prem one day. Faith doesn't enter into it.

 

[teaboy]

That's the strange thing about the universe. It goes on and on and on but what is at the other side of it? Another universe? And what is at the other side of all the other universes? More universes? We are human and we understand beginning, middle, end. Stop. Start. We cannot conceive that the universe doesn't end. It must have an end. But what is on the other side of that end? Nothing? How can there be nothing? Neither can we conceive of the universe at the beginning of creation. (Never mind the science.) A nothing can't just become something, can it? The universe must have started at some point? But what was there before the universe started? A previous universe? etc. etc. And will the universe die? If it does, then what?

We know, therefore, that the universe (or whatever was there before this particular universe, and the ones before that) was always here and always will be, in some form or another.

We also know it has no physical boundary, that there is no edge to it, inasmuch as beyond the universe is something else, perhaps the thing called "nothing".

None of this means the universe was created by a creator, but it does remind me of where the Bible says: "God hath no beginning and He hath no end". Same with the unverse/s.

Most of that is completely unsubstantiated bollocks.

You seem to use the word 'we' to mean everyone from uneducated infants to quantum physicists and astronomers. THIS universe (the one we live in) had a beginning and will have an end. The start (and end) is a singularity - outside of it has no effect on this universe. I strongly suggest reading 'The Big Bang' by Simon Singh - a cracking read and step-by-step guide to how and why we (humanity) know what we do. The information you say 'we' don't know is there. Just because you don't understand it, or haven't heard about it doesn't mean it can't be shown to, read, tested and understood by you.