GOD: How much do you believe in him?

[Tyrone Biggums]

Where is the evidence to support your claims Ty?

As I've said many a time, I'm still looking for definitive proof.

Many things lead me to believe there's a greater power in play throughout the cosmos.

If religious people are supposed to show proof that God exists then anyone who says God is man made should fall under the same category surely?

 

[Max Paper]

Ignored this thread until page 56, haven't bothered to read any of it, but I will say this, religion is a load of bollocks

 

[teaboy]

If religious people are supposed to show proof that God exists then anyone who says God is man made should fall under the same category surely?

Well, show me ANY religious text from ANY religion EVER and I will show you the work of man.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Well, show me ANY religious text from ANY religion EVER and I will show you the work of man.

None of which has any relevance to answering the question does "a god" exist.

 

[HovaGirl]

So you are now claiming that one of the most vicious vindictive cows ever to walk the planet as some kind of great person? The cow who refused help to poor people unless they converted to xtainity. Who refused help if the person had had an abortion. If they used contraception.

The person who herself, as the vicious little theresa did, publicly doubted the existance of god in her final years and said she more and more came to believe god did not eixst.

This is your example?

Mother Teresa (now Saint Teresa) was born 100 years ago. Fifty years ago, Catholics were still taught that contraception and abortion was wrong. A human foetus, according to the Catholic Church, has a soul, and to kill that soul is a sin - "thou shalt not kill". This is not a discussion as to whether abortion is right or wrong, it is a simple statement that the Catholic Church does not permit abortion.

Marriage, to the Catholic Church, is the union of the husband and wife for the creation of children. The Catholic Church holds that to use contraception is to prevent the creation of children, so nullifies the intention of marriage and renders sex with contraception as a sin.

You call Mother Teresa a "vindictive cow", but she was merely upholding her faith in the teachings of the Catholic Church. She saw contraception and abortion as a sin, as do all devout Catholics.

She voluntarily placed her life in the service of others, in the service of the "poorest of the poor", helping them when no one else could. No one can help everyone, including Mother Teresa, so some criteria must be used. As her mission was a Catholic one, then it seems fair that it should be for the use of poor Catholics, leaving other faiths to provide missions for those poor of other faiths.

Mother Teresa spent half her life doubting her faith and her belief in God, and this worried her considerably. However, this did not stop her devoting her life to the service of others. Neither did it prevent her elevation to the sainthood, because, apparently, this doubt is not uncommon in those saints who devoted their lives to the service of God through the service of others.

Which brings us neatly to the question first asked in this thread. "How much do you believe in God?"

If even saints (or living saints as Mother Teresa was called in her lifetime) doubt the existence of God, how can this bunch of football fans on NSC have the answers?

 

[HovaGirl]

I believe someone else may have posted this on here before, but worth repeating.

God is the creation of man.

And remember, religion is no more or less than mass delusion.

Religion is the creation of man. No one knows whether God exists but if he does, then he's no one's creation.

 

[teaboy]

Really? The fact that ALL stories of ANY gods have their origin with mankind doesn't show you proof that 'god' is man made? That was your question. Would you also like proof of the non-existence of unicorns?

What level of 'proof' of non-existence would be acceptable to you?

 

[HovaGirl]

Ignored this thread until page 56, haven't bothered to read any of it, but I will say this, religion is a load of bollocks

You are not the first person on this thread to say so. But, in 2001, 42 million people declared themselves as Christian on their census forms in the UK. Millions of others declared themselves to have other faiths.

 

[teaboy]

You are not the first person on this thread to say so. But, in 2001, 42 million people declared themselves as Christian on their census forms in the UK. Millions of others declared themselves to have other faiths.

So what? I can declare myself a bird - it doesn't mean I can fly. Saying you believe in something does not mean it somehow magically exists.

 

[HovaGirl]

Really? The fact that ALL stories of ANY gods have their origin with mankind doesn't show you proof that 'god' is man made? That was your question. Would you also like proof of the non-existence of unicorns?

What level of 'proof' of non-existence would be acceptable to you?

We do not know "that ALL stories of ANY gods have their origin with mankind". We only have the evidence earlier peoples have left to us. We don't know where they got their stories from but they handed them down, generation after generation. To this day, many Greeks still believe their gods are real.

 

[HovaGirl]

So what? I can declare myself a bird - it doesn't mean I can fly. Saying you believe in something does not mean it somehow magically exists.

No, indeed, but that's what faith is - a belief in something for which you have no evidence. And a belief or faith in the existence of God is exactly what we are discussing. If you don't believe God exists, full stop, then you have nothing further to add to the debate unless you want to delve into the discipline of philosophy.

 

[teaboy]

We do not know "that ALL stories of ANY gods have their origin with mankind". We only have the evidence earlier peoples have left to us. We don't know where they got their stories from but they handed them down, generation after generation.

So, from person to person then...

To this day, many Greeks still believe their gods are real.

Again, that doesn't make it so. Many children believe in monsters under the bed, trolls under bridges, fairies and invisible friends. This does not make them real.

 

[HovaGirl]

So, from person to person then...

Again, that doesn't make it so. Many children believe in monsters under the bed, trolls under bridges, fairies and invisible friends. This does not make them real.

Yes, from person to person, as I said, but also, as I said, we don't know where they got their stories from. To clarify for you, perhaps they got their stories from God himself, who appeared once and only once, but whose appearance remains unrecorded. Or perhaps they got their stories from aliens. Or perhaps they got their stories from the actions of the moon and stars, the wind and the rain, imagining them all to be gods. We don't know where they got their stories from.

I know that the modern Greek belief in their gods does not make them real. The point is, many modern Greeks still believe they are. But then, modern Greeks also believe in the value of the family, something which is lost to many in Western society.

 

[teaboy]

No, indeed, but that's what faith is - a belief in something for which you have no evidence. And a belief or faith in the existence of God is exactly what we are discussing. If you don't believe God exists, full stop, then you have nothing further to add to the debate unless you want to delve into the discipline of philosophy.

So, if you have one particular view of this subject (ie yours) then contributions to the thread are fine, but if you have a different view on the subject then "you have nothing further to contribute"? How is your opinion more relevant than mine? Or anyone else's?

 

[readingstockport]

<snip of a load of bollocks>

the old vindictive cow was being used as an example in this thread as how she did so much for the poor. She didn't. End of story. She selectively helped certain people who fitted into her narrow bigoted viewpoint of how they should behave. Those who did not fit into her vicious bigoted worldview were shown the door with no support and no help.

That is NOT charitable, it is sick and twisted. That warped little horror of a woman was less saintly than many mass murders imo. She WAS a mass murderer, turning away those who she did not like to die in the streets?

Strange definition of sainthood and charity you have.

And so what if the teachings of her imaginary god say abortion is wrong. Her crappy church is wrong and a decent person would have had the moral courage to stand up and say that.

 

[Acker79]

You are not the first person on this thread to say so. But, in 2001, 42 million people declared themselves as Christian on their census forms in the UK. Millions of others declared themselves to have other faiths.

And in 2011 (i.e. this year) that was down to (a youguv poll estimated) 34m (rounding up). You don't need to use outdated data, 34m is more han half the population of the country, a not insignificant number and perfectly respectable and fitting with the point you are trying to make.

 

[Acker79]

Genuine question. Is the pope and his church's representatives in Africa still telling people not to use condoms to prevent the spread of aids, or are they still spreading the misinformation that condoms don't work like that?

 

[seagullmouse]

Ignored this thread until page 56, haven't bothered to read any of it, but I will say this, religion is a load of bollocks

well put

 

[MattBackHome]

Another one to throw into the mix here: That which can be asserted without evidence, can be refuted without evidence. They should f***ing teach that at schools.

 

[Albumen]

And in 2011 (i.e. this year) that was down to (a youguv poll estimated) 34m (rounding up). You don't need to use outdated data, 34m is more han half the population of the country, a not insignificant number and perfectly respectable and fitting with the point you are trying to make.

A lot of people say Christian just because they were Christened. They've not been to church or have read the bible ever. The next generation should reduce the number to 20% hopefully, for proper minority status. It didn't help the way the question was put on the census.