French far right National Front 'routed' in key vote

[Herr Tubthumper]

It's nice to see the FN getting beaten but I'm a little confused that the OP thinks that in the UK, politics should be about principles with a party standing firm on its ideals/policies as agreed by its members then presenting them to the electorate and living or dying by the results whereas in France it's all about electability, compromise and manipulating the political system to achieve an outcome agreeable to most.

Where have I said I support the French system and/or the way the outcome was achieved? I said "It suits me" but this is all and it doesn't mean I necessarily support the way it was achieved. I was deliberately sticking to the fence when I was posting yesterday but was hung over so might have missed something.

 

[alfredmizen]

People voted. They lost. That is the epitome of democracy.

Like our present government then , yes ?

 

[Buzzer]

Where have I said I support the French system and/or the way the outcome was achieved? I said "It suits me" but this is all and it doesn't mean I necessarily support the way it was achieved. I was deliberately sticking to the fence when I was posting yesterday but was hung over so might have missed something.

You say you are happy with the outcome in France regardless of the way it was achieved whereas I've seen you argue that you wouldn't want to see UK Labour compromising Corbyn's vision for the party to take account of what you see as more centrist set of policies for the sake of electability.

The French model will now have lots of horse-trading and watering down of policies but essentially a government that you want in charge and just as importantly, a party that you loathe kept firmly out. Why not the same for the UK?

 

[alfredmizen]

Rightly or wrongly the French second vote system protects against minority parties. It will take a hell of a jump for Le Penn to actually win. Or a complete change in the voting system. I can't see any reason for either of these to change any time soon. But I agree, never say never.

The FN are hardly a minority party with 27% of the vote.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The FN are hardly a minority party with 27% of the vote.

We can semantically debate what minority means, and I agree when viewed in isolation 27% is a fair amount. But when viewed in the context of the 2-run system and them being an extreme party, it isn't IMHO. Typically the party-which-gets-precluded-from-the-second-vote's supporters will swing behind the more mainstream party; the don't swing behind a party more extreme than theirs. If you look at previous French elections you'll see some quite spectacular examples of this.

 

[alfredmizen]

We can semantically debate what minority means, and I agree when viewed in isolation 27% is a fair amount. But when viewed in the context of the 2-run system and them being an extreme party, it isn't IMHO. Typically the party-which-gets-precluded-from-the-second-vote's supporters will swing behind the more mainstream party; the don't swing behind a party more extreme than theirs. If you look at previous French elections you'll see some quite spectacular examples of this.

Yep, understand everything you're saying , but it's not really semantics is it ? It's wishful thing from you, a party with 27% of the vote is not a minority party.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Yep, understand everything you're saying , but it's not really semantics is it ? It's wishful thing from you, a party with 27% of the vote is not a minority party.

Maybe not semantics then. Maybe my emphasis should be on the context of their 27%? It will be tough, almost impossible, for any extreme and/or non-mainstream party, left or right, to run France due to their system.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Like our present government then , yes ?

Yes, our present government was democratically elected.

 

[Simster]

Like our present government then , yes ?

Yes, our present government was democratically elected.

I don't particularly like either process. In both cases, huge swathes of the population are under represented in parliament. How can that be right? Quite frankly, I'd rather the political horse-trading of PR than a process where a minority government gets to do what it wants, or a feeble party gets to run the country simply because it isn't racist.

 

[Greyrun]

Nice spin

No need to spin,the facts from reading the Guardian?