Forest at it again with FFP

[andy1980]

The problem is that the accounts won't be ready until December, and the PL have already stated that FL rules don't apply to PL clubs.

Suspend the fines until re-entry to the League (even Wigan came back down eventually). If they pay then let them in the Championship, if they refuse to pay then they re-enter in league 2.

 

[Creaky]

What about this one:

Financial Fair Play in The Football League
Introduction
Following two years of detailed discussions, The Football League and its clubs have agreed a Financial Fair Play framework that will operate in all three of its divisions from the beginning of the 2012/13 season. It aims to reduce the levels of losses being incurred at some clubs and, over time, establish a league of financially self-sustaining professional football clubs.

The decision to adopt Financial Fair Play regulations follows a strategic review by The Football League Board which identified the state of club finances as the organisation's greatest challenge. During this process, each division has been given the flexibility to determine its own Fair Play regulations, given that clubs of different sizes face differing financial challenges.
In the Championship, clubs have agreed to introduce a breakeven approach based on the UEFA Financial Fair Play Regulations. Whilst in League 1 and League 2, clubs will implement the Salary Cost Management Protocol (SCMP) that has been in use in the latter division since 2004/05. The SCMP broadly limits spending on total player wages to a proportion of each club's turnover.

http://www.football-league.co.uk/page/FLExplainedDetail/0,,10794~2748246,00.html

As I said, apart from generalisations about financial stability of clubs there don't appear to be any specific aims for the FFP system.

 

[KZNSeagull]

As I said, apart from generalisations about financial stability of clubs there don't appear to be any specific aims for the FFP system.

Self sustaining in this instance means not having to rely on people chucking money at the club forever more (the rules do allow up to a certain amount each year). Seems a pretty clear aim to me.

 

[KZNSeagull]

Haven't Forest and QPR got ways to negate the FFP rules, QPR are subsidised by parachute payments and Forest are bending the sponsorship rules by receiving an inflated boost from Fawaz.

Only if the Football League agree that the sponsorship rules have not been broken. They think they are negating the rules - it is up to the football league to ensure that they are not. All clubs have been sent guidelines, apparently.

 

[nwgull]

Self sustaining in this instance means not having to rely on people chucking money at the club forever more (the rules do allow up to a certain amount each year). Seems a pretty clear aim to me.

Seems clear to me as well. I don't understand why people are getting their knickers in a twist over FFP. Even without it we'd be aiming to minimise our losses and ultimately become self-sustaining - Tony Bloom is rich but he's not an infinite pot of money that can fund 14m a year losses indefinitely.

What FFP will hopefully do is prevent football from becoming determined by which ever oil billionaire is prepared to throw the most money at a team that he has no real affinity with.

 

[father_and_son]

IMO the true, measurable impact of FFP also won't come until next season. Although this is the first year that it "counts", clubs still don't really know how well/strictly it will be enforced. Several are gambling that if the punishments aren't that strict, they'll get away with it, especially if they go up and have 60m in TV money to play with. Until the first punishments are dished out, there's still incentive to throw money around. If it comes to punishment time and the FA/FL properly cane clubs who've overstepped the mark, we'll see a change in philosophy. Meanwhile players are in the same boat that they know if they can secure big 4 year deals now, they'll be cashing in before the clubs start to rein things in and play a tougher hand at the negotiating table. The fact Grabban manoeuvred a better deal out of Bournemouth is evidence of that. I'm glad we didn't overpay for him - 1m for a Championship striker is roughly the going rate but he's certainly not good enough to take the piss on wages and get away with it. Next season more clubs will have the same viewpoint.

Agree with all but your timetable... I think there will be a few years of [certain] clubs trying to exploit loopholes and the FA closing them. Eventually it'll settle to a point where the loopholes left are considered "immaterial" and the cat and mouse game ends. Maybe 5-6 seasons of p*ss taking by some clubs/owners to come yet!

 

[nwgull]

Agree with all but your timetable... I think there will be a few years of [certain] clubs trying to exploit loopholes and the FA closing them. Eventually it'll settle to a point where the loopholes left are considered "immaterial" and the cat and mouse game ends. Maybe 5-6 seasons of p*ss taking by some clubs/owners to come yet!

I think you're probably right that the piss taking will continue for up to 5-6 seasons. However, most teams are attempting to bring their costs down and comply, which means that the effects on transfers and wage demands will start to be seen over the next couple of seasons as players on 3-4 deals start negotiating new contracts.

 

[El Presidente]

As I said, apart from generalisations about financial stability of clubs there don't appear to be any specific aims for the FFP system.

So why do you keep going on about it's "stated aims"?

It was you who brought the issue up!

 

[KZNSeagull]

I'm with Lord B here, FFP is an attempt by the rich to stop anyone joining their cost cartel. What the clubs at the top of the money league fear most is the nouveau riche upsetting their self perpetuating, self preserving little gang. The thought of another Manchester City, or PSG, fuelled by new money, 'stealing' one of the their Champions League spots makes them go weak at the knees, and therefore they are doing their utmost to prevent it.

I agree with that, even more so now that fines are are not being redistributed to those within the rules. At least that would have made things slightly more even between those clubs with PL ambitions.

 

[Ernest]

The weird thing is that Germany is painted as the ideal way for football is dominated by Bayern Munich who are a mile clear in the one horse race that is the Bundesliga, at least our leagues are competitive now thanks to clubs splashing the cash

 

[ManxSeagull]

Nottingham Forest have announced losses of more than £17m for the 2012-13 season.

Their staff bill last season was £21m which as comparable to ours, turnover was slightly down but doesn't state to what amount though.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26451499

 

[nicko31]

The weird thing is that Germany is painted as the ideal way for football is dominated by Bayern Munich who are a mile clear in the one horse race that is the Bundesliga, at least our leagues are competitive now thanks to clubs splashing the cash

Yep but our clubs aren't going to be competitive in Europe for the 2nd season running are they? It seems money can't buy English football happiness, firstly with the national team and now increasingly in the Champions League. The German treat football like their manufacturing industry, they own it, invest in it and I believe will ultimately win out.

 

[Keeping The Dream Alive.]

The weird thing is that Germany is painted as the ideal way for football is dominated by Bayern Munich who are a mile clear in the one horse race that is the Bundesliga, at least our leagues are competitive now thanks to clubs splashing the cash

A very recent phenomenon, though. The last 10/15 years have been nothing like that. You can't hold one season up as an indicator.

 

[Machiavelli]

Yep but our clubs aren't going to be competitive in Europe for the 2nd season running are they? It seems money can't buy English football happiness, firstly with the national team and now increasingly in the Champions League. The German treat football like their manufacturing industry, they own it, invest in it and I believe will ultimately win out.

This.

 

[Ernest]

A very recent phenomenon, though. The last 10/15 years have been nothing like that. You can't hold one season up as an indicator.

Now Bayern are using FFP to raid the other Bundesliga teams the league there is going to end up like the Jocko Premier

 

[drew]

Nottingham Forest have announced losses of more than £17m for the 2012-13 season.

Their staff bill last season was £21m which as comparable to ours, turnover was slightly down but doesn't state to what amount though.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26451499

Whilst I doubt they will be meeting FFP limits this season, I suspect they have done exactly what we have and loaded last years accounts with any one of costs they can.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

The losses don't seem too bad when compared to QPR


David Conn
‏@david_conn
QPR thought to be one of the clubs opposing Championship financial fair play (loss limited to £8m). Just announced loss of £65m, for 2012-13

 

[Hotchilidog]

The losses don't seem too bad when compared to QPR


David Conn
‏@david_conn
QPR thought to be one of the clubs opposing Championship financial fair play (loss limited to £8m). Just announced loss of £65m, for 2012-13

But like us, I'm sure they've made necessary cutbacks to comply next year

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

But like us, I'm sure they've made necessary cutbacks to comply next year

Yeah , I've heard on several occasions recently they're down to the bare bones.

 

[Stato]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...avoid-relegation-from-the-Premier-League.html

So if QPR are in the playoffs, when journalists go on about the richest prize in football, will they mention that even receiving a no strings attached cheque for the full £145 million wouldn't come close to clearing the overdraft of a team that enjoyed those riches just last year?

Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold...