FFP & QPR - MoS

[Mutts Nuts]

It would only take one season of properly enforced FFP to get the message over loud and clear

Those running the league do not have the bollocks to take say 100million in fines and then share that money between the 7 or 8 clubs that comply with FFP

 

[sparkie]

So clubs which break FFP and don't go up ( Forest this season, maybe ? ) will still get a fine [ given to other clubs] or an embago ? The fine to charity is just for those which do go up ?

 

[KZNSeagull]

so clubs which break FFP and don't go up ( Forest this season, maybe ? ) will still get a fine or an embago ? The fine to charity is just for those which do go up ?

Embargo for non promotion, fines for those promoted only.

 

[Stat Brother]

It's about time I got some love for the thread title.

Not a single word in it

 

[father_and_son]

Here's a viable solution for the "in the FL/in the PL" dilemma...

The FL revoke the licence of the club breaching FFP. This means that they are no longer entitled to play in any tournament or competition under the control of the FL.

If a megarich chair wants to sp*nk the family silver to get into the PL, then he damn well better have a team good enough to stay there, because if he gets relegated, then his club are out of the PL and are unable to join the FL (unless they settle all their debts due to the FL - with interest). They'll be playing in a pub league the following season!

 

[drew]

Those running the league do not have the bollocks to take say 100million in fines and then share that money between the 7 or 8 clubs that comply with FFP

It has nothing to do with the will of the Football league who want the fines to go to the prudent clubs. It is the premier league that are objecting to it and there is nothing the FL can do about that. Two separate organisations.

Surely it is up to the FL what they do with the money raised in fines. It's quite extraordinary that the Premier League should have any say in what they can or can't do with it.

Fines are only levied if a club gets promoted and the FL have no authority over clubs in the premier league. That is why they need the PL to agree to the fines going to other clubs and obviously they don't. Whether that is because they want to keep the money in house or if their sponsors have kicked up a fuss about it we don't know. However, the only way fines would be paid would be if the money due to a promoted club as part of their membership of the PL is not paid to them but paid direct to the FL.

I have but didnt explain it very well. At the time of breaking the rules clubs would be in The Championship so subject to the FL rules, so surely they, the FL, can take action irrespective of when, so how does it then become the problem for the Premier League, if the clubs who would be fined are not promoted and thus still under the FL or were promoted after the overspending was committed. So as I said it is not the Premier Leagues concern at any time or does it suddenly become their concern because the big clubs arent getting in on the handout.

Not sure on exactly when status in the PL is verified but would suspect that it is late May early June so that promoted clubs can have some form of financial guarantee when they enter into negotiations. Membership of the league doesn't commence on the first day of the season!

There is nothing in the FFP rules that will go one step towards preventing clubs from getting into financial problems - quite the opposite - fines and transfer embargoes can only further damage the financial health of those clubs making it more likely they will end up in administration not less.

Do you think that BHAFC would even be in existence if FFP rules had been in existence and strictly enforced twenty years ago?

There is nothing wrong in my mind with clubs running at a loss so long as those losses are sustainable - even the League would appear to agree with this as they are not trying to make all clubs profitable via FFP but trying to make all clubs run at the same level of loss, irrespective of whether those losses threaten the existence of the club or not.

Without the philanthropy of innumerable individuals over the last hundred years the current level of investment and infrastructure in our game would not be there. Most clubs would be playing in run down stadia, the best players would have migrated overseas and rather than just a handful of clubs having gone out of business there would be very few that had actually survived.

We shouldn't be restricting those individuals, such as TB, who genuinely want to do the best for 'their' club but encouraging them - what we should be doing is making sure that there are sufficient checks and balances in play to ensure that 'rogue' individuals or groups do not get control of a club and if they do manage to do so are unable to asset strip them for their own benefit.

That was then, this is now. Fact is we never went into administration when other more 'affluent' clubs did. Had the rules applied then clubs would have behaved differently.

 

[Creaky]

That was then, this is now. Fact is we never went into administration when other more 'affluent' clubs did. Had the rules applied then clubs would have behaved differently.

Are you suggesting that we are unique in the difficulties we faced? There are clubs now in exactly the same position that we were in.

 

[Creaky]

Here's a viable solution for the "in the FL/in the PL" dilemma...

The FL revoke the licence of the club breaching FFP. This means that they are no longer entitled to play in any tournament or competition under the control of the FL.

If a megarich chair wants to sp*nk the family silver to get into the PL, then he damn well better have a team good enough to stay there, because if he gets relegated, then his club are out of the PL and are unable to join the FL (unless they settle all their debts due to the FL - with interest). They'll be playing in a pub league the following season!

And you think the EPL would accept that!

They would simply stop relegation to and promotion from the FL.

 

[blockhseagull]

Here's a viable solution for the "in the FL/in the PL" dilemma...

The FL revoke the licence of the club breaching FFP. This means that they are no longer entitled to play in any tournament or competition under the control of the FL.

If a megarich chair wants to sp*nk the family silver to get into the PL, then he damn well better have a team good enough to stay there, because if he gets relegated, then his club are out of the PL and are unable to join the FL (unless they settle all their debts due to the FL - with interest). They'll be playing in a pub league the following season!

This

The FL could say pay the fine or until you do you can not participate in any FL competition. Should they get relegated they would be unable to come back into the Championship until they have paid the outstanding debt.

 

[blockhseagull]

And you think the EPL would accept that!

They would simply stop relegation to and promotion from the FL.

As they've showed already they don't care about those outside the Prem... So when a club is relegated they wouldn't care, they have someone to take their place so no skin off their nose.

 

[Creaky]

This

The FL could say pay the fine or until you do you can not participate in any FL competition. Should they get relegated they would be unable to come back into the Championship until they have paid the outstanding debt.

And how would the Championship benefit if the EPL protected its members by stopping the relegation/promotion system?

 

[Creaky]

As they've showed already they don't care about those outside the Prem... So when a club is relegated they wouldn't care, they have someone to take their place so no skin off their nose.

So you think EPL chairmen would behave like turkeys voting for Christmas - I don't think so!

 

[blockhseagull]

And how would the Championship benefit if the EPL protected its members by stopping the relegation/promotion system?

Why would they ? On relegation they aren't a member so wouldn't care.

The premier league NEED relegation

 

[Creaky]

Why would they ? On relegation they aren't a member so wouldn't care.

The premier league NEED relegation

Nowhere near as much as the Championship needs "promotions"

Any decision would be made by the individual clubs having a vote - Apart from possibly the clubs in the top "division" of the EPL I can't see clubs voting for a system that could potentially see them exiled into the wilderness.

 

[blockhseagull]

Nowhere near as much as the Championship needs "promotions"

Any decision would be made by the individual clubs having a vote - Apart from possibly the clubs in the top "division" of the EPL I can't see clubs voting for a system that could potentially see them exiled into the wilderness.

Is argue they need it more, without it the interest in the division is just for 6 clubs at the top, other games after Xmas will become meaningless and attendances will plummet at clubs, this affects sponsorship and other incomes. I don't believe the EPL would be able to afford to turn it's back on the FL and the attitude of a lot of clubs will be **** you jack I'm ok.

 

[Creaky]

Is argue they need it more, without it the interest in the division is just for 6 clubs at the top, other games after Xmas will become meaningless and attendances will plummet at clubs, this affects sponsorship and other incomes. I don't believe the EPL would be able to afford to turn it's back on the FL and the attitude of a lot of clubs will be **** you jack I'm ok.

All that may or may not be true but any decision would still have to be made based on a majority of votes by member clubs.

As for the Championship such a move would be a death knell - nothing for a club to aim for at all

 

[blockhseagull]

All that may or may not be true but any decision would still have to be made based on a majority of votes by member clubs.

As for the Championship such a move would be a death knell - nothing for a club to aim for at all

You are right, however if FFP is treated as it is currently I would say that 90% of Championship clubs won't have anything to play for.

 

[Creaky]

You are right, however if FFP is treated as it is currently I would say that 90% of Championship clubs won't have anything to play for.

Spot on - and FFP will make it more difficult for clubs that are promoted to the EPL to remain there.

At the same time as restrictions are tightened on the spending of clubs in the Championship they are much laxer in the EPL despite the vastly greater income of those clubs - the gap between the "quality" of players in the Premier League and the Championship will inevitably increase

 

[BensGrandad]

Here's a viable solution for the "in the FL/in the PL" dilemma...

The FL revoke the licence of the club breaching FFP. This means that they are no longer entitled to play in any tournament or competition under the control of the FL.

If a megarich chair wants to sp*nk the family silver to get into the PL, then he damn well better have a team good enough to stay there, because if he gets relegated, then his club are out of the PL and are unable to join the FL (unless they settle all their debts due to the FL - with interest). They'll be playing in a pub league the following season!

It would be better if the FA withdrew their sanction so that they couldnt play in any football with debts outstanding not even a Sunday morning pub league. That is what happens to players if they leave a club owing money and the club take it to the FA, or club leave a local league the players registered are suspended until they have paid their proportion of the debt..

 

[sparkie]

And you think the EPL would accept that!

They would simply stop relegation to and promotion from the FL.

And that would be the death of the Premier League.

If there was no relegation how long before the first 'dodgy owner' arrived, who decided to spend nothing on infastructure, and worse decided to field a pub team, and pocket the annual £63 million for himself

No, the Premier League needs relegation to ensure the quality in the lower 2/3 rds.